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Interesting situation with TPTK on turn

  
 
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AlexMorris
Old 04-01-2008, 09:37 PM     Post subject: Interesting situation with TPTK on turn #1 (permalink)  

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UTG has stats over 97 hands: 61.86/3.09/0.43
He is a horrendous, loose player. Once he bets the flop, he tends to continue betting the whole way, typically with nothing.

CO has stats over 185 hands: 10.81/8.11/2.25
He is a standard nit. Only tried to steal 15.38% of blinds, so I don't think he's a thinking player. No read on him other than stats.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (7 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($150.65)
Hero ($141.35)
BB ($117.95)
UTG ($226.45)
MP1 ($98.50)
MP2 ($51.25)
CO ($100.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, A.
UTG calls $1, 2 folds, CO raises to $5, 1 fold, Hero calls $4.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $4.

Flop: ($16) 6, 3, 8 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $2, CO calls $2, Hero calls $2.

Turn: ($22) A (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $6, CO raises to $24, Hero ... ?

As an aside, I typically raise here pre-flop, but this is the 20% of the time that I was trying to mix up my game. I hate flat calling a drawing hand OOP like this, so chalk that up to a mistake. After making that mistake, what do you think about flop play and what do you do on turn?
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badgers
Old 04-01-2008, 09:45 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Def reraise pre but you know that already.

The only move on the turn is to call and block/vbet the river for half pot to get value out of AQ/AJ which the nit can very easily have here. You will often get paid off by the idiot with Ax as well.
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Fnord
Old 04-01-2008, 09:54 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badgers
Def reraise pre but you know that already.
Think through this one again, this time with feeling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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badgers
Old 04-01-2008, 10:02 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by badgers
Def reraise pre but you know that already.
Think through this one again, this time with feeling.


I guess reraising pre is potentially bad because it forces out everything worse, forces the idiot out of the pot against whom we have fantastic implied odds and makes us have to fold to a 4-bet from the nit. If we call we keep the idiot in the pot and he's going to call 1/2 streets of value with his garbage hands. We can also get nice implied odds vs. the nit with AQ.
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Unibomber14
Old 04-01-2008, 11:43 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Yeah rr is bad on the flop imo. Could we 3bet shove the turn here? There is a good chance that we have the best hand, and we expect UTG to call down with a draw right? The nit doesn't look like he's going anywhere either. Why not just try and get it in now?
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elipsesjeff
Old 04-02-2008, 12:33 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by badgers
Def reraise pre but you know that already.
Think through this one again, this time with feeling.
Haha, so true. I like the way this was played as long as you only call the CO raise here. I also like a river lead of between $35-40 if its 3 way, although a shove would be tempting if the flush misses.


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BankItDrew
Old 04-02-2008, 12:35 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 lead turn


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AlexMorris
Old 04-02-2008, 12:44 AM #8 (permalink)  

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So, are you guys thinking this is CO's range?

Board: 6h 3h 8d Ac
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 63.712% 53.71% 10.00% 709 132.00 { AhKd }
Hand 1: 36.288% 26.29% 10.00% 347 132.00 { QQ+, 88, 66, AQs+, AQo+ }

Obviously, I'm going to assume I'm crushing UTG. I don't think that's in question.
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martindcx1e
Old 04-02-2008, 03:41 AM #9 (permalink)  
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it looks like you and nit have the same hand. def. don't fold. i'd prob just shove it since utg is so bad he will call with a draw, but just calling is fine too i guess.
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elipsesjeff
Old 04-02-2008, 04:01 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexMorris
So, are you guys thinking this is CO's range?

Board: 6h 3h 8d Ac
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 63.712% 53.71% 10.00% 709 132.00 { AhKd }
Hand 1: 36.288% 26.29% 10.00% 347 132.00 { QQ+, 88, 66, AQs+, AQo+ }

Obviously, I'm going to assume I'm crushing UTG. I don't think that's in question.
CO is raising 100% of his made hands on flop vs fish.


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martindcx1e
Old 04-02-2008, 06:08 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexMorris
So, are you guys thinking this is CO's range?

Board: 6h 3h 8d Ac
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 63.712% 53.71% 10.00% 709 132.00 { AhKd }
Hand 1: 36.288% 26.29% 10.00% 347 132.00 { QQ+, 88, 66, AQs+, AQo+ }

Obviously, I'm going to assume I'm crushing UTG. I don't think that's in question.
CO is raising 100% of his made hands on flop vs fish.
ya i forgot to say he doesn't have an overpair here ever.
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AlexMorris
Old 04-19-2008, 07:06 PM #12 (permalink)  

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I know this is kind of old, but I thought you guys would want to know the outcome: I folded, UTG folded, and CO did not show his hand.

Based on what you guys said, I think my flop play was actually fine, and my turn fold was horrendous. Thanks for the help!
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