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thizzSantaCruz
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05-30-2007, 07:32 PM
Post subject: Interesting hand from my casino trip
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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OK, I am playing in a 2/2 game. Max buy in is 200 dollars and we are 9 handed.
Villain is playing decent poker for this casino. He is tight and only plays quality hands, his postflop play is only decent, I think he definantly could stack off with one pair hands.
I am in late position with   and bump it up to 10 dollars. Villain completes from the big blind and we are in a 3 way pot.
Flop comes    and I bet 20. Opponent behind me folds and Villain check- calls.
Turn peels off  pot is now about 70. I bet 45 dollars and Villain once again check-calls. Alarm bells start going off now, what is he smooth calling every street with? He knows I have been playing pretty aggressive.
River is a blank and I check it to Villain who thinks a bit and bets 50 dollars.
What do I do here? I am getting 4-1 on my money, I have never seen villain bluff before. The only thing I really beat here is a busted flush draw. It almost seems more of a value bet to me. The only hand I beat is A8....
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ChrisBCritter
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05-30-2007, 08:12 PM
Post subject: Re: Interesting hand from my casino trip
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#2 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Falmouth, ME
Posts: 781
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz
River is a blank and I check it to Villain who thinks a bit and bets 50 dollars.
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I'm assuming you mean that Villain leads out for $50 here?
Either way. His river bet and play up to this point smells horrible, and it isn't hard to find a fold here. BUT, he also very well could've been floating up to this point and knows that you are an aware player who would recognize this as a value bet. This is a crying call for me, and I half expect a boat or stronger Ace, and also half expect a busted FD or Air...
Tough spot.
Chris
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Hey knucklehead! Bonk!
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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Yea I meant villain leads.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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drtofu66
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 595
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I'm a micro-stakes online player, but I've played the 1/2 beginners games in Vegas so maybe what follows isn't total garbage (but I make no promises)...
He's tight, but your read is that he knows you've been aggressive. Someone this tight vs an aggro could have QQ or JJ as much as AQ/AK IMHO. Plus if he decides he wants to defend his blind vs you, he could be doing this with any A or PP. It's live, so I imagine you don't know how much he floats but if he's kind of bad post-flop, might he be doing this with a small/middle pair? His river bet may look like a value bet because he may think it is if he puts you on KK or QQ and he has A4 (or he's repping the A putting you on JJ-KK). Maybe that's why he didn't raise you earlier. And if he has a set, why not raise the flop or turn? A heart will kill his action (though you did say he was bad post flop...).
Maybe I'm just being fishy, but I cry a little and call the river. 4-1 and there are too many hands that he could be doing this with (Ax, JJ/QQ and to a lesser extent, busted FD, any small PP). You kept the pot relatively small so I'd pay off the $50 to go to SD. If you lost at SD, it was his mistake not to raise you earlier and/or not put you all in on the river.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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Um, easiest call ever in a typical casino game. Tougher question is to raise or not.
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Liam^
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 106
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Difficult. He doesn't call you PF with ATo I wouldn't think, and he doesnt check the flop with A9s. AQ and AK are strong possibilities, but so are KK or QQ if he read your raise on trip aces as a bluff. If he did think this, your check on the river might have reinforced him? I dunno I fold here I think.
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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insta-call. You may be overthinking someone who plays flush draws poorly and although the bet sounds more like a value, he may be thinking you whiffed and he can pick it up. Villain could easily have KQh, J10h or even JJ
Now, you may be beat but I think it's much too tight to fold here when you are 4-1. If he does have AK, I don't see why he isn't raising flop (especially on a draw-heavy board) or on turn. I think most likely you have the best hand, unless he likes to do weird slowplays that barely get paid off.
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DaHorror
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06-01-2007, 05:20 PM
Post subject: Re: Interesting hand from my casino trip
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#8 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 616
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Smacks of a blocking bet which indicates to me that he didn't hit his kicker and is somewhat fearful that you hit yours.
I think a set turned FH check-raises hard on the turn to make sure all the money gets in, or at minimum leads for more on the river. I think AT plays similarly and either of these hands might even be more aggressive on the flop.
KK and less will fold the turn to continued aggression I think.
And though very often a check-call, check-call line is a draw - almost never will this type of player blocking-bet the river with a missed draw.
I agree with spenda...I don't think there's any question that you call here.
The bigger issue is - will he fold AK/AQ if you reraise all-in on the river.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz
..., I think he definantly could stack off with one pair hands...
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So your read says that he won't fold if you push the river. If I was in doubt, I'm not gonna try it so I'd just call and payoff his light-played AQ/AK. There's some chance of a split or that he has a weaker kicker than you do as well. Since I think those types of hands could easily take a line similar to villain's here, I don't think you can throw away your hand in this sized pot just because of the possibility of his having AK/AQ.
So I'm voting for a call and expect to see him flip AK/AQ.
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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A lot of good responses here, thanks guys. I wound up showing him my cards and he looked pretty comfortable and after thinking for a while I layed the hand down. Villain showed Jh Th. Good bluff.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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LOL
Dude, if you check and induce a bluff you have to call. Seriously man, you have trips in a casino game, Im going broke with that hand.
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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yea, probalby should have called with the odds i was getting....i just couldnt think of a hand i really beat here except the busted FD and I did not think he would make that play 1 out of 4 times. IDK, that nite going back over the hand I thought I should have called but its whatever. Just got file that one away in the memory banks.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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It's not really even about pot odds.
Checking the river shows weakness, you're not weak, therefore we'd like him to bet. We just need to call once he does so.
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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I made a mistake in my original posting that I corrected in my 2nd post. Since he was in the bb he lead out into me for 50, he did not check. I don't think that changes much anyways but its a clarification.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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bigslikk
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 445
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It's a call. Only hands I see getting played this way (that beat you) are AK or AQ. This guy could have all sorts of shlt here. 4:1 is too good. If this guy's post-flop skills were terrible he'd prob c/r on the turn with an ace like every other donk that tries to scare you away when they have the best hand.
BTW I don't fault anyone who stacks off AJ to AQ/AK when AAxxx comes. It's like stacking KK to AA. In that case, luck kicked u in the nuts. Call.
I also second anyone who says this guy is raising AK outta BB.
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