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I want to fold KK pre - The official FR chat thread

  
 
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mxiu
Old 12-03-2009, 05:30 PM     Post subject: I want to fold KK pre - The official FR chat thread #1 (permalink)  
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Last time I faced this line, it was against a 10/2

This time villain is 38/0 over 27 hands

Am I overthinking this?

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CO ($100)
Hero (Button) ($102.10)
SB ($97.85)
BB ($77.80)
UTG ($48)
UTG+1 ($102.15)
MP1 ($186)
MP2 ($60)
MP3 ($103.85)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, K
2 folds, MP1 calls $1, 2 folds, CO (poster) checks, Hero bets $6, 2 folds, MP1 raises to $186 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero calls $96.10 (All-In)

Flop: ($206.70) 7, 6, A (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: ($206.70) 9 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($206.70) 9 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $206.70 | Rake: $3
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d0zer
Old 12-03-2009, 05:38 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 seems like way too weak of a read to fold a hand that strong....even with his lolfish value line.
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mxiu
Old 12-03-2009, 05:45 PM #3 (permalink)  
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so KK doesnt seem foldable? what if we had QQ, more interesting?
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d0zer
Old 12-03-2009, 05:49 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxiu
so KK doesnt seem foldable? what if we had QQ, more interesting?
Well wait for the FR nits to chime in. I mostly play 6m & have some stationey tendencies in spots like these.

I'd probably fold QQ FWIW. At least with KK he can have QQ.
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Deanglow
Old 12-03-2009, 05:54 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Would not fold QQ, probably not JJ
 
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mxiu
Old 12-03-2009, 05:59 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I guess a 10/2 =/= 38/0 lol
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mxiu
Old 12-03-2009, 06:06 PM #7 (permalink)  
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but dean said he'd call against the 10/2 in my old thread though
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mxiu
Old 12-03-2009, 06:51 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Another KK pre, this is like a snap fold right?

UTG is 19/17, BB is 12/10 2.6 3b

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BB ($122.15)
UTG ($115.90)
UTG+1 ($105.55)
MP1 ($104)
Hero (MP2) ($208.50)
CO ($132.70)
Button ($101)
SB ($97.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K, K
UTG bets $3, 2 folds, Hero raises to $10, 3 folds, BB raises to $27, 1 fold, [color=#CC3333]Hero?
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kingnat
Old 12-03-2009, 08:44 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 WTF?! Shovadoodels... all day. WE HAVE KANG ANG KANG!!!
So you click their picture and then you get their money?
 
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daven
Old 12-04-2009, 02:22 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 it's hard to justify folding KK pre when only 100bb deep.
do what you feel like doing though. Put them on a range, etc.

hand 1 vs an unknown i've seen all sorts here, K7s springs to mind from today. Snap it.

hand 2 is closer. I'd want to know a lot more about BB, your image, and recent gameflow involving the regs and the UTG lag-a-like, and then I just don't see myself finding the fold button. Vs the right reg, perhaps.
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

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Primus Sucks
Old 12-04-2009, 04:58 PM #11 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxiu
Another KK pre, this is like a snap fold right?

UTG is 19/17, BB is 12/10 2.6 3b

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($122.15)
UTG ($115.90)
UTG+1 ($105.55)
MP1 ($104)
Hero (MP2) ($208.50)
CO ($132.70)
Button ($101)
SB ($97.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K, K
UTG bets $3, 2 folds, Hero raises to $10, 3 folds, BB raises to $27, 1 fold, [color=#CC3333]Hero?
Why would you possibly fold KK pre under any circumstances for effective 115BB? This thought process is a huge leak.
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Miffed22001
Old 12-04-2009, 05:17 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanglow
Would not fold QQ, probably not JJ
Agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxiu
Another KK pre, this is like a snap fold right?

UTG is 19/17, BB is 12/10 2.6 3b

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($122.15)
UTG ($115.90)
UTG+1 ($105.55)
MP1 ($104)
Hero (MP2) ($208.50)
CO ($132.70)
Button ($101)
SB ($97.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K, K
UTG bets $3, 2 folds, Hero raises to $10, 3 folds, BB raises to $27, 1 fold, [color=#CC3333]Hero?


Why would you possibly fold KK pre under any circumstances for effective 115BB? This thought process is a huge leak.
do it but dont tell anyone! -
but a competent reg can surely have AK here and isnt just limited to KK+
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Micro2Macro
Old 12-04-2009, 07:25 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primus Sucks

Why would you possibly fold KK pre under any circumstances for effective 115BB? This thought process is a huge leak.
Your thought process is a huge leak.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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mxiu
Old 12-05-2009, 07:50 AM #14 (permalink)  
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thanks for the replies.

First one doesn't seem very interesting in hindsight, just a bit results oriented on both.

Second one I'm 3-betting an UTG raiser from MP meanwhile I should have nitty stats on BB's HUD. I have him at 2.6 3bet over a ton of hands too. Folding seems like a small mistake at worst.
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oskar
Old 12-05-2009, 10:48 AM #15 (permalink)  
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oskar has a spectacular aura aboutoskar has a spectacular aura aboutoskar has a spectacular aura about
 In the first hand if he just limp/raises the minimum or a standard amount, I would continue but pot control as much as possible. A limp shove from an unknown monkey could be very wide. I'm calling with my entire 3-betting range of JJ+, AK there.
I've seen people do that with J4o and 33. Sure it's weighted towards QQ+, but there's a lot of random crap in his range.

I agree on the second one... folding is only a small mistake if it is one.
This isn't even such a heroic fold. IF UTG was MP3, I would say call... but this way his cold 4b should be extremely strong, and I have a hard time believing that a 12/10 would value 4b QQ or AKs there.
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pokerfan
Old 12-05-2009, 06:07 PM #16 (permalink)  
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sorry to hijack this thread. Cold 4 bet/shove is from 10/7/2 uber nit. No doubt his range is absolutely KK+

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CO ($101.75)
Button ($161.80)
Hero (SB) ($100)
BB ($126.80)
UTG ($151.75)
UTG+1 ($121.50)
MP1 ($43)
MP2 ($196.95)
MP3 ($30.30)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, K
3 folds, MP2 bets $3, 3 folds, Hero raises $11.50, BB raises $125.80 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero calls $88 (All-In)

Flop: ($203) 9, 3, 8 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: ($203) 7 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($203) J (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $203
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Micro2Macro
Old 12-05-2009, 08:47 PM #17 (permalink)  
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 maybe we could make this the official folding KK pre thread and just post anything related to KK, preflop, fold, itt.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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daven
Old 12-05-2009, 10:50 PM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
maybe we could make this the official folding KK pre thread and just post anything related to KK, preflop, fold, itt.
the following three hands all from this morning's session, my farewell session at 100nl until I grind back up from the micros. Cheers for the parting gifts FTP...,

vs an aggro 3-betting type, my image is wack vs this guy

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MP2 ($167.75)
Hero (CO) ($104)
Button ($100)
SB ($102.90)
BB ($25.45)
UTG ($103)
MP1 ($144.60)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K, K
2 folds, MP2 calls $1, Hero bets $4.50, Button raises to $16, 3 folds, Hero raises to $42, Button raises to $100 (All-In), Hero calls $58

I play bad

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CO ($276.90)
Hero (Button) ($100)
SB ($22)
BB ($100.50)
UTG ($35.10)
UTG+1 ($202.40)
MP1 ($122.55)
MP2 ($20)
MP3 ($18.05)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, K
2 folds, MP1 bets $6, 3 folds, Hero raises to $17, 2 folds, MP1 calls $11

Flop: ($35.50) 2, 5, Q (2 players)
MP1 bets $35.50, Hero raises to $83 (All-In), MP1 calls $47.50


UTG is 64-33-15

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MP1 ($47.30)
MP2 ($125.60)
MP3 ($100)
CO ($23)
Button ($53.70)
SB ($97.95)
Hero (BB) ($100)
UTG ($111.75)
UTG+1 ($18.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, K
UTG calls $1, 1 fold, MP1 bets $4, MP2 calls $4, 4 folds, Hero raises to $15, UTG raises to $68, 2 folds, Hero raises to $100 (All-In), UTG calls $32
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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badgers
Old 12-05-2009, 11:08 PM #19 (permalink)  
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Trying to understand pokerfan is an endless struggle.
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Primus Sucks
Old 12-07-2009, 07:23 PM #20 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Primus Sucks

Why would you possibly fold KK pre under any circumstances for effective 115BB? This thought process is a huge leak.
Your thought process is a huge leak.
I don't know bro. Unless you have an uber read, this guys range is JJ+, AQs+, AKo. I'm not saying you gotta spaz out and push but at least flat and re-evaluate with position.
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badgers
Old 12-07-2009, 07:58 PM #21 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
maybe we could make this the official folding KK pre thread and just post anything related to KK, preflop, fold, itt.
can we just make this a full ring chat thread. I think the irony in the title is amazing
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Micro2Macro
Old 12-07-2009, 10:11 PM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badgers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
maybe we could make this the official folding KK pre thread and just post anything related to KK, preflop, fold, itt.
can we just make this a full ring chat thread. I think the irony in the title is amazing
lol omg this is fucking win

mxiu please edit the title to:

'I want to fold KK pre - The official FR chat thread'
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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BankItDrew
Old 12-08-2009, 07:05 PM #23 (permalink)  
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 So how is everyone doing today?

I just woke up and feel like shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!

Eating ribs today for my dads birthday, so kinda stoked for that.


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Micro2Macro
Old 12-08-2009, 07:35 PM #24 (permalink)  
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 I woke up 2 hours late, therefore lost 2 hours of grinding and I told my gf I'd go out to dinner etc with her later so this day is officially fail in terms of getting things done.

maybe this thread will liven up the forum a bit? been seemingly dead around here lately...
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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Micro2Macro
Old 12-08-2009, 07:36 PM #25 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Eating ribs today for my dads birthday, so kinda stoked for that.
om nom nom nom
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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daven
Old 12-08-2009, 08:10 PM #26 (permalink)  
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 quick grind this morning and now off to my girlfriend's for breakfast and then a stormy day surf before lunch.

the 10nl is fun, I'm going to win 20buyins at the tables per stake before moving up to the next. Hoping to be back at 25nl tomorrow and 100nl this month.
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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pokerfan
Old 12-08-2009, 08:57 PM #27 (permalink)  
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quick grind and hit & run this afternoon. Some fucking nit 3 bet/ shoved 120BB with KK vs my AA UTG open but he didnt dodge the bullet.
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Micro2Macro
Old 12-08-2009, 09:52 PM #28 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daven
quick grind this morning and now off to my girlfriend's for breakfast and then a stormy day surf before lunch.

the 10nl is fun, I'm going to win 20buyins at the tables per stake before moving up to the next. Hoping to be back at 25nl tomorrow and 100nl this month.
good luck daven
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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badgers
Old 12-08-2009, 10:37 PM #29 (permalink)  
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ugh damn you guys with your surfing and steaks! Jealous much? I have to get up and go to college early tomorrow so no more grindage for me This happened earlier though, I saw this and thought of you...

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($200)
Hero ($338.70)
MP1 ($385.05)
MP2 ($195)
CO ($202.25)
BTN ($236.25)
SB ($122.45)
BB ($200)

Pre-Flop: ($3, 8 players) Hero is UTG+1
UTG raises to $4, Hero calls $4, MP1 raises to $18, 1 fold, CO raises to $48, 3 folds, UTG folds, Hero folds, MP1 raises to $240, CO goes all-in $154.25, Hero says "folded QQ"

Flop: ($453.25, 2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($453.25, 2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($453.25, 2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $453.25
MP1 shows a pair of Kings

CO shows a pair of Aces


CO wins $412.50 (net +$210.25)

MP1 collects $37.75 (net -$202.25)
UTG lost $4
Hero lost $4

MP1 should fold preflop for sure imo. CO is 14/11 very solid reg, opener is a huge nit and I am calling all my continuing range here so there's no way CO is 4bet bluffing.
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mxiu
Old 12-09-2009, 10:50 PM #30 (permalink)  
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om nom nom FRaments

where QQ vs KK vs AA happens on the regular
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Deanglow
Old 12-28-2009, 04:50 PM #31 (permalink)  
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 I see no folds with KK in this thread, maybe 1 or 2 are close
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-06-2010, 01:15 AM #32 (permalink)  
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 This was actually the first thread in a while that got me motivated to grind full ring again. Thanks!


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