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I make Perfect Read, player doesn't listen

  
 
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DoGGz
Old 06-24-2005, 07:21 AM     Post subject: I make Perfect Read, player doesn't listen #1 (permalink)  
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Maybe not proper, but I have the right to discuss the hand. I'm starting to get this whole online reading thing down.


***** Hand History for Game 2254776711 *****
NL Hold'em Trny:13360442 Level:1 Blinds (10/15) - Tuesday, June 21, 04:22:20 EDT 2005
Table 3 - Table(374767) Table #3 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: digger190 ( $1000 )
Seat 2: mMagic_Cards ( $990 )
Seat 3: bobwitz1 ( $1060 )
Seat 4: JonQNormal ( $1060 )
Seat 5: RazzManA_5 ( $940 )
Seat 6: kkcmikkel ( $985 )
Seat 7: leedragon2 ( $1000 )
Seat 9: ENIGMA4U4ME ( $1965 )
Seat 10: camtheman78 ( $1000 )
Trny:13360442 Level:1
Blinds (10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to mMagic_Cards [ Ah Qc ]
leedragon2 folds.
ENIGMA4U4ME calls [15].
camtheman78 folds.
digger190 raises [60].
Oh no he has AK, my AQ no good....
mMagic_Cards folds.
bobwitz1 folds.
JonQNormal folds.
RazzManA_5 calls [50].
kkcmikkel folds.
ENIGMA4U4ME calls [45].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jc, Qd, Js ]
Damn I had the winner...
RazzManA_5 checks.
ENIGMA4U4ME bets [50].
digger190 calls [50].
RazzManA_5 calls [50].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6h ]
RazzManA_5 checks.
ENIGMA4U4ME checks.
digger190 checks.
** Dealing River ** [ Td ]
RazzManA_5 checks.
ENIGMA4U4ME checks.
digger190 bets [200].
RazzManA_5 calls [200].
mMagic_Cards: digger has ak
mMagic_Cards: just tossing that out there
ENIGMA4U4ME is all-In [1855]
NOOOOO FOLD!!!!
digger190 is all-In [690]
RazzManA_5 folds.
digger190 shows [ As, Kd ] a straight, ten to ace.
ENIGMA4U4ME shows [ 9h, Kh ] a straight, nine to king.
ENIGMA4U4ME wins 965 chips from side pot #1 with a straight, nine to king.
digger190 wins 2325 chips from the main pot with a straight, ten to ace.
rofl
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drmcboy
Old 06-24-2005, 01:26 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 People who call out hands suck. People who are proud of it suck more.
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DimitriT
Old 06-24-2005, 01:29 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmcboy
People who call out hands suck. People who are proud of it suck more.
Calling out hands is rude. Please don't do it. You can brag about your read, after the hand is over.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 06-24-2005, 01:30 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Also, super-tight fold preflop.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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bair
Old 06-24-2005, 03:26 PM #5 (permalink)  
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why did you fold this preflop? that is way too tight. you would have won the hand by betting him out before the river
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dalecooper
Old 06-24-2005, 03:40 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Number one, don't get too cocky. It's easy to see AK every time someone makes a standard raise. They could very easily have something else and make that same raise. Your fold pre-flop is pretty tight.

Number two, it's REALLY uncool to call someone's hand while the betting is still open.
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Muxy
Old 06-24-2005, 04:16 PM #7 (permalink)  
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I hate players like this and they piss me off. Kinda looks like you are culluding, if i was at the table I would of reported you. Even if it was just a "READ" saying hands while betting is still going is against TOS on most sites. What if that guy had QQ And you said oh i have AQ, hes like shit one of my outs are gone. Thanks and folds to a Ace high board.

Very ignorant.
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H Dogg
Old 06-24-2005, 04:19 PM #8 (permalink)  
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If you were wrong, how stupid do you feel?
{Solicitation removed by Xianti}
 
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Theeggman
Old 06-24-2005, 07:09 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Overt pride = -EV

If you're more interested in showing everyone how good your reads are than you are about taking down pots then you've got a major leak in your game.
I'll be a rootin' tootin' shootin' damn fool, protectin' my chips.
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 06-24-2005, 07:36 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Hoping on the band-wagon. -EV.

{Locked}

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 06-25-2005, 12:41 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
I obviously can't REPLY to anything. Thank you rilla. This is sent to everyone involved in the thread.

First off, Weither you agree with discussing of hands at the table or not, it is NOT against PartyPoker Policy or Terms. I am free to think out load about another players holdings at any time during play.

Second, I was attempting to start a discussion on online reads. For me, this is something that I once was never able to do, and now is something I have some ability at. There are so many times I had known what he had and not said anything but of course no one would believe you. "Why not say it before i showed you!!11!! lol"

Finally, to everyone who said this was "over pride". WTF? I am happy that I made a good read. That is NOT over pride. Over pride would be someone who believes that entering a game or tournement that there is no competition, an easy win. If simply being happy about you abilities and great plays, is -EV, then what of players like Ace, Rada, and Mike who are all much better then me and all post tournement HHs and discuss hands in them? I know all three of them have made comments such as "Great Read here". According to Eggman and Rilla these guys have to be EXTREMELY -EV....


Don't Judge, Critque.

doggz

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 06-25-2005, 12:46 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Just a few points of interest.

1) Any time anyone raises preflop, it is the natural reaction of all players to say "AA, KK or AK." Based on one raise early into a tourny, you just decided to run with AK. You had no basis, it was just a feeling. So you make a super-tight fold of AQ at 10/15 blinds and decided to keep up with your read.

Reading ability is g00t, but i never know what an op has after only one street of action and neither does Rada, Ace, or Mike. You narrow it to a range of hands, then after the flop too fewer hands, turn just to a couple or maybe even 1.

Working on your reads is great and something everyone should do, but here you just made a lucky guess. You did not make a leap into the class levels of aces, mike and rada, you just made a guess and some it work out without putting any chips at risk. It's a more difficult test to make a read and follow through with your chips.

It's just a pet-peeve when people discuss a hand while it's being played. That's personal preference and not against Party Poker standards. You may do as you please, we just don't agree with it.

{unlocked becuase discussion has bloomed}

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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DoGGz
Old 06-25-2005, 01:17 PM #13 (permalink)  
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I almost ALWAYS fold to a raise with AQ. AQ is just one of those hands that gets you in a lot of trouble. EP it is not likely he is raising trash, and there aren't many hands I can beat. Even if I do hit my A or my Q I would question putting a lot of my chips at risk with only that. AQ to me is a hand that is only really drawing to 2 Pair or better. Believe it or not some pros would agree with my statement.


I think you may have gotten the wrong impression, I'll edit the hand history to add in what I was thinking, not just some funny commentary.

***** Hand History for Game 2254776711 *****
NL Hold'em Trny:13360442 Level:1 Blinds (10/15) - Tuesday, June 21, 04:22:20 EDT 2005
Table 3 - Table(374767) Table #3 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: digger190 ( $1000 )
Seat 2: mMagic_Cards ( $990 )
Seat 3: bobwitz1 ( $1060 )
Seat 4: JonQNormal ( $1060 )
Seat 5: RazzManA_5 ( $940 )
Seat 6: kkcmikkel ( $985 )
Seat 7: leedragon2 ( $1000 )
Seat 9: ENIGMA4U4ME ( $1965 )
Seat 10: camtheman78 ( $1000 )
Trny:13360442 Level:1
Blinds (10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to mMagic_Cards [ Ah Qc ]
leedragon2 folds.
ENIGMA4U4ME calls [15].
camtheman78 folds.
digger190 raises [60].
Oh no he has AK, my AQ no good....

***He has a strong hand. To often it will beat AQ. AQ also gets you into trouble. No need to waste my chips in middle position to a raise***
mMagic_Cards folds.
bobwitz1 folds.
JonQNormal folds.
RazzManA_5 calls [50].
kkcmikkel folds.
ENIGMA4U4ME calls [45].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jc, Qd, Js ]
Damn I had the winner...

*** Probably had the winner, but if i didn't I would be able to probe to find out if someone indeed has the jack***
RazzManA_5 checks.
ENIGMA4U4ME bets [50].
digger190 calls [50].
RazzManA_5 calls [50].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6h ]
RazzManA_5 checks.
ENIGMA4U4ME checks.
digger190 checks.


*** No, I have the winner right here***
** Dealing River ** [ Td ]
RazzManA_5 checks.
ENIGMA4U4ME checks.
digger190 bets [200].

***Yep, my thoughts were right. AQ was beat preflop, good fold doggz***
RazzManA_5 calls [200].
mMagic_Cards: digger has ak
mMagic_Cards: just tossing that out there

***I was just stating the obvious, everyone at the table should have known this. Was I the only person watching the hand???***
ENIGMA4U4ME is all-In [1855]
NOOOOO FOLD!!!!
digger190 is all-In [690]
RazzManA_5 folds.
digger190 shows [ As, Kd ] a straight, ten to ace.
ENIGMA4U4ME shows [ 9h, Kh ] a straight, nine to king.
ENIGMA4U4ME wins 965 chips from side pot #1 with a straight, nine to king.
digger190 wins 2325 chips from the main pot with a straight, ten to ace.
rofl
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Old 06-25-2005, 01:20 PM #14 (permalink)  
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I see where you are going. But players at small/mid stakes will be raising hands worse than AK in early position, it's worth reraising (more often than not reraising) AQ most times to see where you are and if he really has AQ.

People don't only raise AA/KK/AK from EP. They raise different hands aswell.
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Bmxicle
Old 06-25-2005, 01:22 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Later on in a sng, and in ring games i will almost always re-raise w/ AQ. But early in a sng with a limited number of chips i make that same fold.
 
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DoGGz
Old 06-25-2005, 01:26 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Right, they will.

But when i have AQ, cold called and the flop comes AK2 and someone leads out, what do you do?

Or the flop comes A45, and he leads out?

I'm drawing to and A or a Q and I still give myself a hard decision even if the card i hope comes does.

If i go on to win i'm going to see 100's of hands, and some of those hands are going to be the difference between winning it all, and not. I can tell that I've had many many hands I wish I'd have only called/played differently that would have doubled me up. But I can honestly say that I've never had to say that about AQ.

Sure, someday I might say that, but it is risk/reward, and there is such a large risk for most of the time not a large reward. I'm going to try to put my money in at better spots.
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Estrop
Old 06-26-2005, 08:42 AM #17 (permalink)  
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I fold AA, KK, AK, QQ when someone raises, what if they flop the nuts and out draw me? It's too risky..
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DoGGz
Old 06-26-2005, 08:50 AM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estrop
I fold AA, KK, AK, QQ when someone raises, what if they flop the nuts and out draw me? It's too risky..
Stop being dumb Estrop. Actually read my post before flaming with random BS.

I guess PHIL IVEY doesn't know anything about poker either

Quote:
Originally Posted by doggz

Don't Judge, Critque.
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Estrop
Old 06-26-2005, 08:59 AM #19 (permalink)  
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Yeah. What you are doing by telling them you have AQ is helping another player. That's called collusion isn't it? Sharing your cards with someone else to give them an edge. Someone could of had QT and now the guy with AK is thinking, well if he had a queen there is a smaller chance that THIS guy has a queen.

Stop colluding.
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