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dalai007
Old 03-17-2005, 12:25 AM     Post subject: I lose my stack.... #1 (permalink)  

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dalai007
every time with this hand. After the flop I pushed hoping to get a call from any pair thinking I was repping an overpair. For me there is no way I am gettting away from this hand. Just curious as to what others think.
#Game No : 1743086968
***** Hand History for Game 1743086968 *****
$25 NL Hold'em - Wednesday, March 16, 01:18:41 EDT 2005
Table Table 37402 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: jungkim86 ( $29.87 )
Seat 2: Slimster003 ( $25 )
Seat 4: IMREALLYSANE ( $23 )
Seat 5: vtshag13 ( $25.1 )
Seat 6: bigr2411 ( $26.28 )
Seat 7: askichick ( $23.55 )
Seat 9: lexxxsteele ( $99.43 )
Seat 10: lama008 ( $24.25 )
Seat 3: hughd ( $5 )
askichick posts small blind [$0.1].
lexxxsteele posts big blind [$0.25].
hughd posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to lama008 [ Ah Ac ]
lama008 raises [$2].
jungkim86 folds.
Slimster003 folds.
hughd folds.
IMREALLYSANE folds.
vtshag13 calls [$2].
bigr2411 calls [$2].
askichick folds.
bigr2411: WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU WILL SO ANYTHING?
lexxxsteele: let's just say the pond is fully stocked on party poker!
lexxxsteele folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3d, 3c, Th ]
lama008 is all-In [$22.25]
IMREALLYSANE: lol
vtshag13 is all-In [$23.1]
IMREALLYSANE: lots of bait fish
bigr2411: SOUNDS CRAZY TO ME
bigr2411 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5s ]
** Dealing River ** [ 7s ]
lama008 shows [ Ah, Ac ] two pairs, aces and threes.
vtshag13 shows [ Td, Tc ] a full house, Tens full of threes.
vtshag13 wins $0.85 from side pot #1 with a full house, Tens full of threes.
vtshag13 wins $48.55 from the main pot with a full house, Tens full of threes.
Game #1743093335 starts.
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Les_Worm
Old 03-17-2005, 12:58 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Why push all in? The only time you get called with that bet is when you are beat. AA doesn't win everytime.
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allLiving
Old 03-17-2005, 01:06 AM #3 (permalink)  
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You played it fine, maybe overly aggressive on the flop but not terrible.

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a500lbgorilla
Old 03-17-2005, 01:06 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les_worm
Why push all in? The only time you get called with that bet is when you are beat. AA doesn't win everytime.
Not true for these limits. But hands that can improve and still get crushed will fold. Your AKs and KQs for isntance.

-'rilla

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You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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Les_Worm
Old 03-17-2005, 01:24 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Les_worm
Why push all in? The only time you get called with that bet is when you are beat. AA doesn't win everytime.
Not true for these limits. But hands that can improve and still get crushed will fold. Your AKs and KQs for isntance.

-'rilla
What hands could someone possibly call with that doesn't have AA beat?

I guess a more correct statement would be that any hands I would call with here would have you beat.
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Greedo017
Old 03-17-2005, 01:56 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 i disagree here, bad move. someone could easily have had that three or the 10's. people are bad, but if you pushed in this situation every time you're losing more than you're winning.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 03-17-2005, 01:59 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedo017
i disagree here, bad move. someone could easily have had that three or the 10's. people are bad, but if you pushed in this situation every time you're losing more than you're winning.
Having 3 of a kind Tens would be a good thing. You should call raises with TT.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 03-17-2005, 01:59 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les_worm
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Les_worm
Why push all in? The only time you get called with that bet is when you are beat. AA doesn't win everytime.
Not true for these limits. But hands that can improve and still get crushed will fold. Your AKs and KQs for isntance.

-'rilla
What hands could someone possibly call with that doesn't have AA beat?

I guess a more correct statement would be that any hands I would call with here would have you beat.
Pocket pairs may overcall.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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dalai007
Old 03-17-2005, 02:28 AM #9 (permalink)  

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Exactly. I was pretty much certain no one is going to call my pf raise with a 3 in their hand. Any callers were two high cards or a a pp. I figured to get paid off with some smaller pp. Only five cards in the deck are going to get hit by that flop. I felt certain the threes were out of play. Thus only three cards the 10s. I feel that going all in here will win way more money in the long run than it will lose.
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Fnord
Old 03-17-2005, 03:09 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les_worm
The only time you get called with that bet is when you are beat.
You've been here a long time and I think that qualifies as the silliest thing I've seen you post.

Worse hands will call because they think you're bluffing or whatever, leaving open the question of against these particularly oponents does pushing get the most money? How often does a worse hand call? I doubt a better hand folds.
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Les_Worm
Old 03-17-2005, 01:44 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
You've been here a long time and I think that qualifies as the silliest thing I've seen you post.
I guess thats why I stay away from the NL game. I can't imagine someone calling all in with anything but TT or a 3. In the time I did play NL I found that most decent players would often overbet the pot (or push all in) in order to make it look like a bluff. Then the guy that was gonna be the hero and call the bluff gets burned. When you can get away from the hand for only $2 calling with an inferior hand seems stupid. But, like I said I am far from qualified to speak in a NL discussion.
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Pyroxene
Old 03-17-2005, 01:59 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les_worm
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Les_worm
Why push all in? The only time you get called with that bet is when you are beat. AA doesn't win everytime.
Not true for these limits. But hands that can improve and still get crushed will fold. Your AKs and KQs for isntance.

-'rilla
What hands could someone possibly call with that doesn't have AA beat?

I guess a more correct statement would be that any hands I would call with here would have you beat.
People will call that bet every day with JJ-KK, plenty will call it with 99.
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AJ
Old 03-17-2005, 02:11 PM #13 (permalink)  

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Rather than analyze your play, let me ask a question. Post flop, if you had bet between .75 and 1.5 times the pot and then had been re-raised, would you have been able to lay the aces down?

If the answer is no, then pushing was the right move for you.

For me, I try to give the other guy at least a little bit of credit for calling my preflop 4xBB raise with something. I agree that any 3 was unlikely (although I would have considered that a loose player had called with A3s). Hell the pair of tens was unlikely too, but there it was and it cost you your stack. If you had bet the pot (or there about) and he had nothing, he probably folds. If you push all in and he has nothing, he probably folds also. Same result, much less risk.

Not a criticism, just a different perpective.

Other side of the same coin:

I played a hand just this morning that went like this:

Me 10 10
Him ??

I raise preflop from SB to $2.00
He calls and has position on me.

FLop is J 10 4 (rainbow)

I check
He checks

Turn is A (my greatest wish come true)

I check
He goes all in (yeah!)

I sit for a second and try to figure what he has, my logic is:

He must be on one of 2 hands

AK, AQ

I discount AJ and A 10 because I think he would have bet the flop since he would have hit TPTK.

I discount a pair bigger than my tens because I think he would have raised me back preflop with JJ - AA

I discount a pair smaller than my tens becuase I think the 3 over cards on the board make it unlikely.

I call and the river turns a blank. He shows A 8.

I wonder what he thought I might have. Why not bet the pot instead of pushing in $28? Sheesh. Thank god for these people.
Who said dogs can't play poker?
 
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allLiving
Old 03-17-2005, 02:42 PM #14 (permalink)  
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AJ that's silly logic. Betting $1.50 on that flop and getting raised means nothing. Just because you get re-raised doesn't instantly mean the opponent has a better hand than you, don't be scared money. Sometimes you just get beat, and going all in on this flop, or re-re-raising isn't a bad move unless you have a perfect read on your opponent to put him on a full boat. Also people don't ONLY call when they know they have you beat, since when is the poker world filled with alot of great players? I've seen people call this bet with 77-99, and obviously JJ-KK. You give the opponents way too much credit than they deserve.

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AJ
Old 03-17-2005, 02:49 PM #15 (permalink)  

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Understood, but I think you may have misread my post. What I suggested was betting .75 - 1.5 times the pot. There would have been $6 plus the blinds in the pot at this point. I suggested betting between $4 and $9. If you get reraised on that, then you have a decision to make based on any read you may have of your opponent.

Betting $1.5 would have been just silly (as you ponted out) because it would have given him great pot odds to continue regardless of what he had.
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dalai007
Old 03-17-2005, 03:33 PM #16 (permalink)  

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dalai007
I thought about that as well. What I would do if I got reraised after a smallish bet on the flop and I would most definently have still gone all in for the reasoning i stated above. There is just no way I am putting my opponent on 10 10. I was sure any caller would have a pp or A10 K10. All my money is going in the middle every time on this one wether all at once or with several increasing raises.
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