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Deanglow
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10-11-2009, 02:18 AM
Post subject: I has a big draw 400NL
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Villain is DaRossman, a good aggro 17/12 with 4.6 3bet. He likes to checkraise the flop alot. Original raiser is a 27/6 over 130 hands. What it do on flop and turn
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
saw flop | saw showdown
UTG ($448.70)
UTG+1 ($205.50)
MP1 ($954.60)
MP2 ($422)
MP3 ($572.30)
Hero (CO) ($400)
Button ($412.30)
SB ($400)
BB ($556.05)
Preflop: Hero is CO with K , J
UTG bets $8, 4 folds, Hero calls $8, 2 folds, BB calls $4
Flop: ($26) A, 4 , Q (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $16, BB raises to $52, 1 fold, Hero calls $36
Turn: ($130) 4 (2 players)
BB bets $92, Hero
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daven
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10-11-2009, 03:00 AM
Post subject: Re: I has a big draw 400NL
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#2 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,814
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
Villain is DaRossman, a good aggro 17/12 with 4.6 3bet. He likes to checkraise the flop alot.
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doesn't that mean that you will have pretty decent fold equity when 3-bet shoving this flop? your initial bet looks a lot like you're trying to steal the pot from the fishy pfr, i think your range to bet this flop is pretty weak and bb knows it if he's good. That fold equity plus 12 outs against his calling range (i don't expect him to take AA to a flop in a min-raised pot and out of position, nor QQ, i don't think kings are outs if he calls) aren't a huge chunk of his range.
Turn is a spot i hate. Calling is relying entirely on implied odds, i guess the hidden outs for the straight make this a borderline ok call, plus the chance that you are ahead of his weaker draws. Is villain the type to bet turn after check-raising the flop, or is he one of those players who kinda give up?
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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i hate giving up the initiative on this flop when its clear we are simply betting it when UTG checks it to us a large % of the time.
It also creates an ugly looking spot on the turn for us when our equity drops more significantly.
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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3 bet/ get in on the flop vs this c/r happy guy but fold this turn as played. I Gamboool this on the flop all day long barring uber nits!!!!!
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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This seems like a pretty unique spot to know that "he likes to check raise this flop a lot."
I think that to say 3-betting the flop is best is sorta results oriented. When we called that 52 we called with the expectation that on 85% of turns we'd either turn some form of the nuts or have good enough equity to call any bet. This is one of those 15% turns where it becomes a tough spot for us.
That said, vs someone who has 44/A4s with over half their flop raising range (99% of full ring players), turn is an obviously easy fold. Vs this player its tough though, and the correct line might be to call. The funny thing is you wouldn't really be calling to draw, you'd be calling for sd value and putting him on a hand like total air, a gutter, or a worse flush draw. You might have to call a blank river.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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I hate shoving turn though because you have 0% equity when called, and I don't much like 3-betting the flop because he seems to have a lot of air/draws here according to your read, and you don't want those to fold.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Just chiming in to say that calling the flop is far better than 3-betting and Renton is a good poster.
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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My 2 cents as a low stakes donk: raises flops very wide and raises Axx flops very wide are two very different tendencies in my experience... because the range of made hands is much thinner and draws are fewer than on Jxx or lower, and he's creating some ugly spots if he just raises tptk.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
This seems like a pretty unique spot to know that "he likes to check raise this flop a lot."
I think that to say 3-betting the flop is best is sorta results oriented. When we called that 52 we called with the expectation that on 85% of turns we'd either turn some form of the nuts or have good enough equity to call any bet. This is one of those 15% turns where it becomes a tough spot for us.
That said, vs someone who has 44/A4s with over half their flop raising range (99% of full ring players), turn is an obviously easy fold. Vs this player its tough though, and the correct line might be to call. The funny thing is you wouldn't really be calling to draw, you'd be calling for sd value and putting him on a hand like total air, a gutter, or a worse flush draw. You might have to call a blank river.
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The SD value makes it a call on the turn imo
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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Thought about this some more, he has 4x of clubs a ton here.
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