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Jesse K

01-05-2005, 05:53 PM Post subject: I got taken.. for everything...

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 31

My first post here...

Im in a $10 NL cash game at pacific poker... I get K10o. I call and big blind doubles the blind. One person before me calls and I call. Flop comes JK10. The guy who raised bets .25. Next guy folds and i raise $1. He calls. The Turn is a 2. He bets 3. I raise 4 and then he calls all in. I dont remember what the river was but it wasnt important. He Held AQ and flopped the nut strait. How do you play against something like that? What should I have done?

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Spook

01-05-2005, 06:57 PM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Denver, CO

Posts: 388

Look at it from his side...

He has AQ suited, he raised a little telling everyone he has "something"

Flop comes KJT giving him the nut strait AND a nut flush draw. (I'm guessing this from your post)

He leads out with a min bet (showing weakness) hoping someone will jump on him... which you did.

Turn comes and gives him the flush he's been dreaming of and he tries to be nice and just get the money in the pot by making a pot sized bet, but instead you think he's full of it and raise over the top of him. So he says to himself, fine I'll take your money, and goes all in. Then you promptly say sure.. here you go.

--------------

Respect the board, when it tells you there is a strait and a flush possibility, you better have a good reason to think someone is bluffing before you put your money in the pot with only 2 pair.

[edit] sorry.. I somehow read flush in your post.. wasnt there.

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bspahn

01-05-2005, 07:00 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 851

Hey. I'm not sure about others here but I might be weary of a preflop raise and a call before me with KTo, I generally limp with this.

During play this one is tough, as the 25c bet (1/3 pot) is deceiving with the nut straight, if he'd re-raise here you'd know- unfortunately he didn't.

Also think to yourself you put in a big raise betting the pot, and he's calling - why? Could he have two pair, is he a person that calls that with just high pair, is he chasing multiple outs with something like QT or perhaps 89s ? (this isnt likely as otherwise why would he raise preflop)

Look back and think what kind of hand could he have that would justify the preflop raise and that coincides with his bets or calls during the flop.

On the turn, it's very unlikely the 2 helps him as he wouldn't call $1 with 22 on the flop, so you have to figure he's betting $3 (roughly the pot) with a hand that was presumibly very good already.. i think at this stage i'd either fold or call to see the river and then figure out what he really has.

lolzzz_321

01-05-2005, 07:08 PM

#4 (permalink)

NO YOU

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: My ice is polarized

Posts: 2,797

As you play more you will recognize more...

He at least had trips.

Most people don't go all in with nothing, usually they have close to the nuts especially in ring games.

You lost money, but you gained knowledge, that's how I try to look at my losses too, very difficult sometimes though.

Oya two pair is a bitch hand.

Les_Worm

01-05-2005, 07:09 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2004

Location: MI

Posts: 1,697

Fold KTo preflop.

The artist formerly known as Knish
Only mediocre players are always at their best.
Phil Ivey Owns You

FlyingSaucy

01-05-2005, 07:11 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Watching the kids

Posts: 1,603

That is a very tough hand to fold. Hands like this are what make NL such a bitch some times. It's also what makes it fascinating and fun. It comes down to playing the player. If he was known to be overly aggressive with top pair or even middle pair, that's an easy call. Otherwise, it is a tough lay down but you have to do it. Here's why, IMO:

His .25 flop bet reeks of slow play, especially because of the following:
1. His preflop raise was bigger than his flop bet. If he didnt hit on the flop, he probably would have checked here since you called his pfr and you've got position on him. It's a feeler bet to see how much he can extract from you.
2. He calls your 3x flop raise, and follows it up on the turn with a big bet + all in call. Truly the 2 could not have helped him on the turn, so he has to be betting on what he caught on the flop.

He did not seem the least bit scared of your aggression on the flop or turn, and with the preflop action it is not impossible to put him on AQ. I may also have been also worried about KJ, JJ, or TT, all of which still have you beat.

It's easy for me to say knowing the results, of course. Again, tough lay down, but those are the things I would have been thinking before I made the fold.

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