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I enjoyed this, but did I play it right?

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boyobach

07-26-2005, 08:56 PM Post subject: I enjoyed this, but did I play it right?

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: UK

Posts: 86

This hand just happened.
I've been having a pretty good day today.

***** Hand History for Game 2428093997 *****
$50 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, August 25, 16:37:14 EDT 2005
Table Table 37285 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: sperkdaddy ( $61.70 )
Seat 2: Kraizx ( $50 )
Seat 3: R_OBlivion ( $46.95 )
Seat 5: droopdogg111 ( $74.22 )
Seat 6: Hero ( $297.87 )
Seat 7: Doctor_Jani ( $80.10 )
Seat 9: jackieboy_ ( $49.75 )
Seat 10: AnGel_fish72 ( $33.30 )
Seat 4: foluse ( $26.25 )
Seat 8: Bankslaven ( $56.80 )
Hero posts small blind [$0.25].
Doctor_Jani posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Ah Kc ]
>You have options at Table 13758 Table!.
Bankslaven folds.
jackieboy_ raises [$2].
AnGel_fish72 folds.
sperkdaddy folds.
Kraizx calls [$2].
R_OBlivion folds.
foluse folds.
droopdogg111 calls [$2].
>You have options at Table 13758 Table!.
Hero calls [$1.75].
Doctor_Jani folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qc, 2s, Th ]
Hero checks.
>You have options at Table 13758 Table!.
jackieboy_ bets [$8.10].
Kraizx calls [$8.10].
>You have options at Table 13758 Table!.
droopdogg111 calls [$8.10].
Hero calls [$8.10].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jh ]
>You have options at Table 13758 Table!.
Hero is all-In.
AnGel_fish72: good bet
>You have options at Table 13758 Table!.
jackieboy_ is all-In.
Kraizx is all-In.
droopdogg111 folds.
** Dealing River ** [ 6c ]
AnGel_fish72: AK hearts
Hero shows [ Ah, Kc ] a straight, ten to ace.
jackieboy_ doesn't show [ Ac, Qs ] a pair of queens.
Kraizx doesn't show [ 2c, 2h ] three of a kind, twos.
Hero wins $247.87 from side pot #2 with a straight, ten to ace.
Hero wins $0.50 from side pot #1 with a straight, ten to ace.
Hero wins $156.85 from the main pot with a straight, ten to ace.
wow

kraizx was fuming after this!
He claimed i should never have called the flop bet on inside str8 draw. Was he right?
Surely the implied odds made the call ok.

I figured my push on the turn may have looked like a bluff. Anybody play this differently?

pocket Jacks eh?

CANT WIN WITH 'EM
CANT WIN AGAINST 'EM
CANT FOLD 'EM

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dalecooper

07-26-2005, 09:18 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 3,107

You're getting 4:1 on your flop call, which is not just the straight draw but also a couple of overs (although only the straight is known to be clean - the aces and kings may not help you). Plus implied odds. I don't think it's a terrible call, especially since Kraizx leaped in and paid you off after you hit. Obviously there was profit to be had, and he helped you have it.

I don't really understand your insta-push on the turn though. You have the nuts and a lot of guys who might pay you off - why try to chase them out so eagerly? I think you're lucky that even kraizx called.

bair

07-26-2005, 09:20 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 953

play is fine, your implied odds were through the roof

CrunchyNuts

07-26-2005, 09:27 PM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 436

Let's see, by the time the betting comes to you, you're putting ~$8 into a ~$24 pot, so 1:4 - you need to win 20% of the time. 4 outer gives you ~16% on the turn+river, so assuming the river card is free (haha) you're good to go.

Add in implied odds and it's much less borderline, unless someone backdoors a flush on ya, but that'd just be lame.

Up my bankroll - buy Saints Row.

EricE

07-26-2005, 09:30 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 894

Hmmm. Maybe this is one of the things I am doing wrong. If someone throws out a pot sized bet and I am on an OESD or inside draw I fold.

Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL

dalecooper

07-26-2005, 09:57 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 3,107

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricE

Hmmm. Maybe this is one of the things I am doing wrong. If someone throws out a pot sized bet and I am on an OESD or inside draw I fold.

Careful now. This is a huge grey area and can make a big difference in your profitability. Here are my thoughts on this, or some general rules of thumb that I live by:

1. I don't like to call with inside straight draws unless I may have other outs (like two overcards), the pot odds are at LEAST 3:1 on my call (and preferably 4:1 or better), and there are good implied odds - everyone in the hand has a deep stack relative to the existing pot, and at least one other player is known to be aggressive and will pay me off. In general, if one person bets the pot and you are next to act, with an inside straight draw, you fold every time. That shouldn't even be a question, unless you and the other guy have $10,000 apiece and the pot is $100.

2. I call more with OESDs, particularly if it uses both of my cards, and as such is better-disguised from my opponent. On the flop I might even call a pot-sized bet from one opponent (2:1 odds) if we both have deep stacks and I feel I can get paid if I make my straight. Generally though I'd like to see some other callers, or have pot odds in the 3:1 area.

Inside straight draws are a longshot and should be treated as such. You need great pot odds (i.e. call a small bet relative to the pot, or lots of callers on a larger bet - as happened here). You also need great implied odds, because very rarely will you get good enough pot odds to make that call. OESDs on the other hand are twice as likely to hit, and just about as likely to get paid off if they're hidden, so you can call with worse pot odds and lesser implied odds.

boyobach

07-26-2005, 10:38 PM

#7 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: UK

Posts: 86

Thanks dale.

A very good post. That has certainly made it clearer in my head.

What level do you usually play at?

I ask because, i think that at the $50 level the implied odds are going to be greater than at higher levels because the players cant seem to lay down their hands

pocket Jacks eh?

CANT WIN WITH 'EM
CANT WIN AGAINST 'EM
CANT FOLD 'EM

dalecooper

07-26-2005, 10:51 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 3,107

When I play ring games, which isn't often of late, I play $100 6-max. Implied odds can be enormous at that level too because a lot of players are quite aggressive. Actually implied odds are even more important in 6-max because there's more bluffing and people are willing to call big bets with modest hands. (Which is often correct play, but very profitable when you know how to capitalize.)

outphase

07-26-2005, 10:55 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 949

let this be an example of when calling instead of raising can cost you a huge pot

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambchopdc

Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.

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