|
Deanglow
|
02-16-2008, 11:16 PM
Post subject: I cannot believe I'm posting this hand 400NL
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
|
|
Any of you who have played with me/seen my advice know that I hate folding. Villain is 7/2.5 over 500 hands. I got my stack playing solid/tight. So do you make the fold?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
UTG ($394)
UTG+1 ($62.15)
MP1 ($252.30)
MP2 ($399.40)
CO ($444.70)
Button ($793)
Hero ($620)
BB ($162.70)
Preflop: Hero is SB with 3 , 3 .
4 folds, CO raises to $16, 1 fold, Hero calls $14, 1 fold.
Flop: ($36) 3 , Q, 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $28, CO calls $28.
Turn: ($92) K (2 players)
Hero bets $68, CO raises to $228, Hero
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
Jack Sawyer
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
|
|
You are playing against the Rock of Gibraltar
I really don't like bottom set in that situation
|
My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
Quote:
|
VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
|
Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
|
|
XTR1000
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
|
|
Without a read he´s slowplaying QQ/KK on this sort of flop I get in.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
|
yo
|
|
Deanglow
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by XTR1000
Without a read he´s slowplaying QQ/KK on this sort of flop I get in.
|
What is his range?
|
|
|
|
Muzzard
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Deanglow
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by XTR1000
Without a read he´s slowplaying QQ/KK on this sort of flop I get in.
|
What is his range? |
We are screwed vs his range, unless he play AK or AA like this. Which I think Villain wouldn't. What's the aggression factor?
If aggression is reasonably low, range is QQ/KK/AA/AK, in that order of likelihood IMO
|
|
|
|
d0zer
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,527
|
|
If you don't think villain will stack off with overpair/TPTK/2pr/flushdraw/misc hand that loses to bottom set, why call a PFR with 33 OOP?
|
|
|
|
XTR1000
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Deanglow
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by XTR1000
Without a read he´s slowplaying QQ/KK on this sort of flop I get in.
|
What is his range? |
AhKh/AA/QQ
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
|
yo
|
|
BankItDrew
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
|
|
i've raise preflop with suited hearts and JT before,... add that to anyones range
|
Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
|
|
Deanglow
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by d0zer
If you don't think villain will stack off with overpair/TPTK/2pr/flushdraw/misc hand that loses to bottom set, why call a PFR with 33 OOP?
|
I think my implied odds are there. I don't think he is a very good nit and will stack off easily on a 10-high board.
Quote:
|
i've raise preflop with suited hearts and JT before,... add that to anyones range
|
I'm almost 100% he folds J10 PF. I'm also pretty sure he just calls the turn with AhKh
|
|
|
|
bigslikk
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 445
|
|
Slowplayed QQQ getting anxious as the board becomes more drawy.
I mean, wouldn't an overpair raise flop?
|
|
|
|
d0zer
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,527
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Deanglow
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by d0zer
If you don't think villain will stack off with overpair/TPTK/2pr/flushdraw/misc hand that loses to bottom set, why call a PFR with 33 OOP?
|
I think my implied odds are there. I don't think he is a very good nit and will stack off easily on a 10-high board. |
Should the rule of 15 be modified to like the rule of 30 or something if you only feel ok stacking off on a 10 high board after hitting yer set?
Not criticizing -- I know you've got far more experience on these higher levels than I. My 200NL experience consists of 7 hands...my 7th I stacked off when calling a PFR with 88 OOP, AJ8 board, villain had Jacks.
...so I'm kind of curious about bottom set at the higher limits vs the nit regs. To be honest, coming from a microstakes POV, it makes me question the value of even playing higher levels. Is it just a feeding frenzy of nits staying away from each other, all preying on the few gamblers passing by?
|
|
|
|
Deanglow
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by d0zer
To be honest, coming from a microstakes POV, it makes me question the value of even playing higher levels. Is it just a feeding frenzy of nits staying away from each other, all preying on the few gamblers passing by?
|
This is way off. You will understand as you get better and move up in levels. Donks are everywhere and nits are kind of rare.
|
|
|
|
djh860
|
|
3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 57
|
|
I lay down all kinds of good hands for a guy like him
|
|
|
|
BankItDrew
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by d0zer
Should the rule of 15 be modified to like the rule of 30 or something if you only feel ok stacking off on a 10 high board after hitting yer set?
|
I use the 10x rule @ 200nl and it works for me
|
|
|
|
vegascoop
|
|
Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 224
|
|
Might his PF range look like 99+,AQs+,KQs,AKo, which would be about 4.5 percent of hands considering everyone folds to him in the cutoff? I think we may be narrowing his range too much even though he is a NIT among NITs.
for my own benefit I would like to establish a preflop range and then work toward what hands would get to the turn and could then make that raise.
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
All-in.
528 games 0.005 secs 105,600 games/sec
Board: 3h Qh 9d Kc
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 48.864% 48.86% 00.00% 258 0.00 { 3c3d }
Hand 1: 51.136% 51.14% 00.00% 270 0.00 { QQ+ }
|
|
|
|
nutsinho
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
|
|
wtf guys AA doesnt fit the action AT ALL vs him. his range in order of likelihood is KK-QQ-99-KQ-rare JTs or bluff
fold
|
|
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
If AA (and AK) are heavily discounted, then I can see a fold.
|
|
|
|
Deanglow
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
|
|
Results: I thought about it for a good five seconds and just "meh whatever it's a cooler and shoved." I was very surprised when he called with AA. I have another hand for your viewing pleasure.
Villain is 4/1 over 200 hands.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (7 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
BB ($198.20)
UTG ($514.80)
MP1 ($240)
MP2 ($525)
CO ($554.40)
Button ($80)
Hero ($384.50)
Preflop: Hero is SB with 3 , 3.
1 fold, MP1 calls $4, MP2 raises to $20, 2 folds, Hero calls $18, 1 fold, MP1 calls $16.
Flop: ($64) J, A, 4 (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks.
Turn: ($64) 3 (3 players)
Hero bets $44, MP1 folds, MP2 raises to $88
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
Quote:
|
wtf guys AA doesnt fit the action AT ALL vs him.
|
AA is the nuts. LDO
On a more serious note, I think there is something said for trying to read too much into post-flop play given just pre-flop numbers. Particularly since it's aggro online poker.
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
The second hand looks like a fold I've made a couple times.
edit: Consider a c/c on the turn.
|
|
|
|
nutsinho
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
|
|
yeah thats surprising but i think it just shows that he was a player with very low bet literacy as raising that turn with AA is definitely a bluff and the raise functions poorly as both a bluff and a value/protection bet
|
|
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
|
|
Quote:
|
yeah thats surprising but i think it just shows that he was a player with very low bet literacy as raising that turn with AA is definitely a bluff and the raise functions poorly as both a bluff and a value/protection bet
|
I think his line is pretty reasonable given the flop donk on a board with a little action. He wants to induce a follow-through bet, then stuff draws. The King was a pretty bad card, maybe bad enough to call again but he stuck to his game-plan anyway.
Besides, isn't c/c, bet all the rage with sets these days?
|
|
|
|
d0zer
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,527
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Deanglow
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by d0zer
To be honest, coming from a microstakes POV, it makes me question the value of even playing higher levels. Is it just a feeding frenzy of nits staying away from each other, all preying on the few gamblers passing by?
|
This is way off. You will understand as you get better and move up in levels. Donks are everywhere and nits are kind of rare. |
Good to hear. Intuitively I know this, just the few times I've played outside my BR at 100/200NL I've run into some brutal negative variance / tight tables and it's skewed my perspective of how tough these limits are 
|
|
|
|
nutsinho
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fnord
Besides, isn't c/c, bet all the rage with sets these days?
|
on dry boards maybe, but here i would have checkraised bottom set 100% of the time
|
|
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
06-01-2012, 11:03 AM White House Responds to Poker Players Alliance's Petition
Linear Mode
