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How to Play an Odd Hand
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silverfist
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09-15-2005, 10:07 PM
Post subject: How to Play an Odd Hand
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 341
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I had the following hand twice while playing no-limit last night, and I was wondering how other people would play it. I played A-4 and A-5 suited, and in both cases the flop was A-3-8ish. The three and the eight were of my original suit.
This is a weird hand. I have an ace pair, but my kicker is crap, so I don't want to count on it. However, since I have a pair, I do have a two-pair possibility. Then, of course, I have the flush draw. There's even an off-chance of a straight in there. So, I figure I have twelve outs.
This gave me a pair of aces and a nut flush draw. Anyway, to make a long story short, in both cases I had called other people's raises pre-flop and I was facing a bet. That meant that a lot of money was in the pot, people were confident in their hands, and I was facing people with a lot invested. In both cases, I went all-in and two people followed me. In one case, I won and in the other I lost (to an A-8 off-suit).
Did I play this right, do you think? It's a tricky hand, but I've seen it a lot lately, since I like Axs so much.
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nomore
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 45
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Its a harsh situation. IMO since it was raised pre-flop, i'd just play it as any other draw. Call if its cheap, fold if someone shows too much aggression.
If you dont hit the flush or 2 pair, any other ace will beat you, as you are probably aware 
I wouldnt have called it anyway, the flush is an unlikely hand to get, and the 4 kicker really means you cant bet on the ace.
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PokerPatNEU
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 797
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Try to only play Ax suited in position, the button or CO if you think you can limp it safely. Do NOT call raises pre flop with Ax suited unless you know the raiser is a maniac who you can destack if you hit the flop at all. Do not play it from early position under any circumstances, it looks like a pretty hand, and sure it can make you the nuts...but think about what making a flush really gets you. How often does someone pay off a flush when you are check/calling check/calling and then the 3rd flush card hits? There are lower implied odds on flushes (Unless you flop them, then they are harder to detect) because people can read you for a draw and fold when the scare card comes. Only play Ax suited from position if you are very confident you can limp it. And only play it for flushes. When you limp Ax suited and you pair your ace, your hand is very vulnerable to being out kicked.
In these hands, the only outs you know for sure are clean outs, are your flush outs. Odds are that your opponent has a higher kicker and/or has already paired their kicker. Call bets that are within your pot odds (or close to) for drawing to your flush. Don't rely heavily on pairing your kicker.
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Anyway, to make a long story short, in both cases I had called other people's raises pre-flop and I was facing a bet. That meant that a lot of money was in the pot, people were confident in their hands, and I was facing people with a lot invested. In both cases, I went all-in and two people followed me.
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This is crazy. You know you are an underdog here, and you know that people are confident in their hands. Why would you want to put all your chips in when you believe you will be called? Pushing with a strong draw is only good as a semi bluff. If you think you can take the pot down because you have fold equity, you make this play. And if you get called, you have outs. It is not a good play when you take the fold equity out of the equation.
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EricE
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
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You got yourself into this situation by calling raises PF. If you had limped in with these hands you would not have ended up AI prior to hitting your flush. Don’t call raises PF with these hands unless you do it rarely to spice things up (which I will do, but only rarely and from LP only). If you are in the hand, play it like the flush draw. You KNOW your A will not hold up with that kicker.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Don't call raises with stuff like Ax, Kx, Qx suited. I know it's hard, but they have terrible implied odds. If you make your hand you won't get payed.
As you get better, you'll learn to improve your implied odds postflop by disguising your draw. Until then, figure out what an implied hand is and call raises with those cards instead. That includes pocket pairs, suited connectors, suited one gappers, and mid connectors unsuited like 78, 89, and 9T (because your straight cards sometimes hit the pocket of your opponent).
I'd rather call a raise with 56 suited than A6 suited. It's easier to get away from. A bad ace can trap you.
500lbGorrilla turned me on to calling with gapped cards because they have awesome implied odds. People pay off hidden straights all day long.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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STIdrivr
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern california
Posts: 580
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"I'd rather call a raise with 56 suited than A6 suited. It's easier to get away from. A bad ace can trap you. "
Exactly how i see it Rondavu
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