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How to play AKo oop

  
 
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Keilah
Old 05-29-2008, 01:27 AM     Post subject: How to play AKo oop #1 (permalink)  
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This one's been getting me today, and I'm wondering how other posters handle it.

You open raise 4xBB with AKo anywhere from UTG to Early MP and have a tight image, around 15/13/2.5.

Another TAGG with similar-ish stats 3bets from LP.

Call? 4-bet to 40BB? 4bet AI? Fold? Plan for future streets?
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spoonitnow
Old 05-29-2008, 01:42 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 4-bet some and fold some imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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Vrax
Old 05-29-2008, 02:29 AM #3 (permalink)  
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If you 4bet, then size it to leave around PSB behind, so you can be first one to bluff flop.
"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
 
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sarbox68
Old 05-29-2008, 02:54 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Don't know the stakes involved... My experience is only $10 & $25NL... and at those stakes, 3-betting PF from a non-f-cktard is usually JJ+ and frequently QQ+ and a lot of the time KK+....

So that puts you dick end of a coin flip most of the time against a made monster that's not folding unless you hit the A on the flop... A good chunk of the time I've 4-bet, I've gotten shoved over by an AA-KK, and since I won't usually play PF AI deep with AK, I'm folding the bitch out...

So what am I trying to say? I'll usually fold my AK to most reasonable 3-betters OR I'll call and re-eval on the flop. But I don't know sh!t beyond $25NL...
 
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bikes
Old 05-29-2008, 05:15 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 Depending on the stakes i usually 4 bet to 34ishBB or fold. Me calling the 5 bet shove is read dependant obv.
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XTR1000
Old 05-29-2008, 10:44 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
4-bet some and fold some imo.
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pokerfan
Old 05-29-2008, 01:29 PM #7 (permalink)  
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this is read dependent. some retarded thinking players even fold to my 5 bet shove
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TheSyphon
Old 05-29-2008, 05:50 PM #8 (permalink)  
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I'm new here.
Why can't you call the raise and see if you flop one or the other?
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bigspenda73
Old 05-29-2008, 08:08 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSyphon
I'm new here.
Why can't you call the raise and see if you flop one or the other?
The problem with calling is that your opponent has the initiative, so unless you are planning on defying mathematics and flopping a pair more than 1/3rd of the time, you're going to be c/f'ing a lot of flops. See, when you 4bet, being OOP is actually an advantage, because like has already been stated, you have the leverage on the flop being first to act. Now I'm not saying to 4bet AK every time you get 3bet, sometimes you should certainly fold, but that is opponent dependent.

I know this is the FR forum but here's a HU hand I played the other day that illustrates my point.

Seat 1: LolTrappedU ($56.50 in chips)
Seat 2: PassivePauly ($44.55 in chips)
LolTrappedU: posts small blind $0.25
PassivePauly: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to LolTrappedU [Kh Ac]
LolTrappedU: raises $1 to $1.50
PassivePauly: raises $4 to $5.50
LolTrappedU: raises $8.50 to $15
PassivePauly: calls $10.50
*** FLOP *** [2h Jc 4c]
PassivePauly: checks
LolTrappedU: bets $30
PassivePauly said, "i got AK dude"
LolTrappedU said, "cool"
PassivePauly said, "i run so fkn bad"
LolTrappedU said, "heh"
PassivePauly: folds
Uncalled bet ($30) returned to LolTrappedU
LolTrappedU collected $29.50 from pot
LolTrappedU: shows [Kh Ac] (high card Ace)

Look at this HH, if he 5bets PF, I call and we chop. BUT, by 4betting and committing myself, I'm never going to lose to the SAME hand. Also, if I just call PF and he continuation-bets, I'm generally giving up there, so because he would have been the last aggressor he wins.


Another key point: how much value are you going to get on Axx or Kxx flops? If your opponent wants to stack-off on either of these flops, aren't you at the bottom of his 3bet/flop stack-off range? A TAGG opponent generally isn't 3betting AQ/KQ enough OR stacking off with QQ/JJ enough on these flops to make getting all your money in profitable. Calling 3bets OOP has to be one of the biggest leaks I see from the FR regulars, especially with mediocre strength hands like small-medium pp's and AQ/KQ/AJ type hands. All of these hands play much better with initiative.
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kmind
Old 05-29-2008, 08:35 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 how the fuck did you post this without upping your post count?

nice post though, etc etc
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TheSyphon
Old 05-29-2008, 08:58 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Wow! Great post. I guess I play too trappy, get the goods - drop the hammer. Or, all out bluff. I guess I should throttle up a notch or two, especially on-line. In your example, he folded big slick. I'm sure he would have to fold any pp under the Jacks and J x.

On the flip side, we are throwing a lot of chips in there with Ace high, praying Pauly didn't re-raise us initially with something he won't lay down.

I know we have two of the cards in Pauly's range to call . . .

Again, Great Post!
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bikes
Old 05-29-2008, 09:50 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmind
how the fuck did you post this without upping your post count?

nice post though, etc etc
I was wondering the same thing.
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badgers
Old 05-29-2008, 11:41 PM #13 (permalink)  
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seeing as spenda can't reply i will for him.

For some reason (perhaps due to a deleted thread or something) his count was at 3998 for the past couple of weeks or something so he's had one spare post. Good way to spend it, nice post

Also, I'm not going to lie... readless I fold AKo OOP all the time.
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Hawk
Old 05-30-2008, 12:38 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bbickes
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmind
how the fuck did you post this without upping your post count?

nice post though, etc etc
I was wondering the same thing.
superuser imo
 
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spoonitnow
Old 05-30-2008, 01:29 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bbickes
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmind
how the fuck did you post this without upping your post count?

nice post though, etc etc
I was wondering the same thing.
He lost a post when some thread got deleted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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