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neva07

11-29-2005, 05:38 AM Post subject: how to play this?

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 26

Help out a newb. I was running great and then I lost a few buyins. Am I too aggressive with TPTK?

MoneyGenerateor had about $20 but up and down alot. I'd seen him raise and show down with crap.

neva07 Card dealt to a spot :Ad: :Qs:

Salazang Fold $ 0.00
Fishmen3 Call $ 0.10
neva07 Raise $ 0.40 I raised here
eXcelon Fold $ 0.00
MoneyGenerator Call $ 0.40
cheftell Raise $ 0.70 reraise could mean A3o at this table.
Seleucus Fold $ 0.05
cardslammer Fold $ 0.10
Fishmen3 Fold $ 0.10
neva07 Call $ 0.30
MoneyGenerator Call $ 0.30

Betting round completed Last active pot = $2.35

Card dealt to table

:Jd: :Qd:

neva07 Bet $ 1.50
MoneyGenerator Call $ 1.50
cheftell Fold $ 0.00

Betting round completed Last active pot = $5.35

Card dealt to table :Td:

neva07 Bet $ 3.20
MoneyGenerator Call $ 3.20

Betting round completed Last active pot = $11.75

Card dealt to table

neva07 All-in $ 3.90 Check the river??
MoneyGenerator Call $ 3.90

Tried to clean the horrible HH up.
Thoughts?

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ChrisBCritter

11-29-2005, 05:57 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: Falmouth, ME

Posts: 781

Jeez, you pulled both barrels on the Flop and the Turn, and he just let you keep feeding him money.

A little more aggression on your part would have told you more in this hand...Try this the next time if you feel that you might put all your money on the table on TPTK:

Bet the POT on the flop, if he calls, he should have a good hand and it's time to maybe be a little more careful if a hard scare card come on the turn.

Ok, the turn completed the flush AND straight draw, maybe put out a decent bet here (though after his smooth call on the flop, I'm probably in Check/fold mode already), your TPTK is not looking very good anymore, even though now you have a re-draw to the nut flush you might call a small bet here... check/fold the river...

When a LAGG just starts Calling my raises, that sends up BIG warning flags to me...

Hey knucklehead! Bonk!

smoore

11-29-2005, 06:22 AM

#3 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2005

Location: I buy $T

Posts: 11

I like to bet the pot on this flop, I don't want to make a flush draw a correct call and with your stack he's getting 4:1 implied... not quite enough for a non-nut flush to call here (you're holding the nut A of course). Two pair is crushing me here, if a LAG calls my pot sized bet (instead of ~60%) I can be sure I need to improve. This stinks real good like rope-a-dope.

edit: w/TPTK and draw to the nut flush I can overbet the turn all-in and prepare to rebuy... I'm going to lose this most of the time if he calls. First he has to call, but I expect he will instantly and show me two pair or possibly his set.

--
smoore

neva07

11-29-2005, 06:37 AM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 26

So at these tables they will call down with TPNK to full pot bets. This is great but I can't figure out when they have hands that beat me and when they have crap and when they are drawing.

Thanks though. I should bet the pot and then slow down if called.

He had J10o. I want him to call with a weaker hand on the flop but then he hits his second pair and smooth calls my turn bet.

I should definately check the river though eh?

DogOnMySide

11-29-2005, 10:32 AM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Manchester, UK

Posts: 458

I often get taken out by stuff like this. Being out of position, and playing against people who keep smooth calling.

One of the drawbacks of playing aggressively is that people will let you do their raising for them if they make a bad call on the flop which improves on the turn or river.

The other horrible part is if you decide to check the turn. Opp raises you, presumably.

Do you fold it? Or do you think "I showed weakness, so you're betting at me?" and re-raise it?

Hence POSITION is so important in hold'em.

I've been messing around with how I play a bit of late and have started doing a bit of Aok's Counterplay stuff when out of position, and plain old TAG when i have position. I'm even thinking that i'm happy to win a bit less than optimal on my out of position hands to minimise this risk.

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BankItDrew

11-30-2005, 05:57 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2005

Location: Losing Prop Bets

Posts: 2,789

BankItDrew will become famous soon enough

Bet the size of the pot on the flop, anything less is an easy call for anyone with a nut flush draw.

Don't push AI on the river, you will only get called if you a beat.

I push AI for two reasons:

1) I think my opponent has a good enough hand that he'll call my better hand.

2) I think my opponents hand is so weak that there is no way he would call this massive bet.

In your scenerio, you had TPTK after the river. Pushing AI here would only get a caller if you a beat. Pushing AI here because of a bluff would make no sense because you have no info on this guy other than the pre-flop raise. He called everything up until now, what makes you think he'll fold now?

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Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?

Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?

rubixstreub

12-01-2005, 08:40 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 887

Does anyone have a sound default strategy for playing TPTK or Premium overpairs out of position like this?

I'll agree that a pot sized flop bet is the only way to go.

I'd love to see people play out these turn scare card scenarios (or say which you would never do) and what you'd do on the river?

1. you lead for 1/2 the pot he calls?
2. You pot it again and he calls?
3. You check, he checks
4. You check, he bets 1/2 the pot
5. You check and he pots it.

Position is power and it just seems like there's no way to get out of these types of hands alive.

Come give me advice.
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BankItDrew

12-02-2005, 07:04 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2005

Location: Losing Prop Bets

Posts: 2,789

1. you lead for 1/2 the pot he calls?
- I would think he's on a draw or has hit a piece. Value bet the river but outbet the draw possibility.

2. You pot it again and he calls?
- Same as above except consider a stronger holding. You are probably loosing at this point by two-pair or a set. It may be though that he has hit the same TP as yourself.

3. You check, he checks
- Value bet the river. regardless of what the 5th street is.

4. You check, he bets 1/2 the pot
- Double his bet. Take over the betting and lead out on the river.

5. You check and he pots it.
- Call. Value bet the river and fold on any raise.

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