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How do you guys deal with AA in these two similar situations

  
 
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pokerfan
Old 06-11-2007, 04:17 AM     Post subject: How do you guys deal with AA in these two similar situations #1 (permalink)  
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hand 1:
i played against the villain(11.1/4.6) after 112 hands, who looked like a tight player and didn't do anything out of the line by then.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP1 ($189.65)
MP2 ($357.30)
CO ($34)
Hero ($200)
SB ($233.10)
BB ($331.15)
UTG ($23)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, A.
2 folds, MP2 calls $2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $8, 2 folds, MP2 calls $6.

Flop: ($19) 5, Q, 6 (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $8, MP2 raises to $20, Hero calls $12.

Turn: ($59) J (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $20, MP2 calls $20.

River: ($99) Q (2 players)
MP2 bets $40, Hero ???.
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pokerfan
Old 06-11-2007, 04:30 AM #2 (permalink)  
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hand 2:
i was against another villain(109 hands/33.0/12.8/) at the same table and his flop aggression is 3.0 (pokeroffice stats). Also, i had a read on this guy who liked to coldcalled lots hands.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($189.65)
MP1 ($405.30)
MP2 ($34)
Hero ($152)
Button ($232.10)
SB ($329.15)
BB ($23)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A, A.
3 folds, Hero raises to $6, 1 fold, SB calls $5, 1 fold.

Flop: ($14) Q, 4, 7 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8, SB raises to $16, Hero raises to $40, SB calls $24.

Turn: ($94) K (2 players)
SB bets $30, Hero calls $30.

River: ($154) Q (2 players)
SB bets $45, Hero ??
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pokerfan
Old 06-11-2007, 04:37 AM #3 (permalink)  
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i just figured that i should've bet much more on the flop though.as played, i really wanted to show some weakness when i had a strong hand for the purpose of occasional bluff inducing move.
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apunisher
Old 06-11-2007, 05:20 AM #4 (permalink)  
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bet more on the flop and turn in hand 1. I dont think you can fold either due to pot odds. I call river in both of them.
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pokerfan
Old 06-11-2007, 05:55 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apunisher
bet more on the flop and turn in hand 1. I dont think you can fold either due to pot odds. I call river in both of them.
most of the time, when i bet very strongly on the dry board, lots of 1-2 NL thinking players on stars would fold it instantly. With some strong hands like AA or KK , i really wanted to make more money while representing weakness and inducing some potential bluff instead of scaring worse hands like mid pairs, weak Q or some surprising draws away just because it's a HD play and there was no obvious danger in thsse two hands.
at this 1-2 nl level, people like to bluff you off when they sense your weak cb.
does it make any sense though?
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apunisher
Old 06-11-2007, 03:15 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by apunisher
bet more on the flop and turn in hand 1. I dont think you can fold either due to pot odds. I call river in both of them.
most of the time, when i bet very strongly on the dry board, lots of 1-2 NL thinking players on stars would fold it instantly. With some strong hands like AA or KK , i really wanted to make more money while representing weakness and inducing some potential bluff instead of scaring worse hands like mid pairs, weak Q or some surprising draws away just because it's a HD play and there was no obvious danger in thsse two hands.
at this 1-2 nl level, people like to bluff you off when they sense your weak cb.
does it make any sense though?
In my experience, i think its best to simply cbet the same amount whether you hit or missed, and whether you have a high pp or AK or something. If you are getting that much respect for a reasonable flop cbet, then i would open my raising range slightly and cbet more like this and take down more pots. Eventually, they will have to start adjusting because they will realize you can't have a hand everytime u cbet like that. Thats when ur larger bets with AA and KK will mkae money.

If you impose one betting strategy for missed flop cbets and another one for hands where u hold a monster, you will become exploitable, if your opponents are thinking ones. It may very well be that they haven't caught on yet, but i think they will probably be calling a flop cbet if they flop tp whether you bet less than 1/2 pot or if you bet 2/3 to 3/4 pot. A bigger cbet is so much more profitable because it sets up much larger bet sizes on later streets, allowing you to extract more money with your big hands.
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pokerfan
Old 06-11-2007, 04:33 PM #7 (permalink)  
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good point,apunisher
folks,any other thoughts before i post the final result?
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wufwugy
Old 06-12-2007, 01:49 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 hand one you're beat no doubt.

hand two you cant call the turn but fold the river.
 
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Jimmy Mac
Old 06-12-2007, 12:37 PM #9 (permalink)  
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I don't like the flop three bet in hand 2. With position and a dry board I like to call and re-evaluate on the turn.
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gingerwizard
Old 06-12-2007, 12:47 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 You have to fold hand 1 cos you are beat more than 75% of the time. (and the pot odds are 3:1) If you find yourself ahead 25% of the time or more then call, but I'mm convinced im behind 95% here
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griffey24
Old 06-12-2007, 01:40 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 If you're only gonna bet $20 in hand 1, you might as well check through.

As played, I think I call both due to pot odds. I wouldn't be surprised if you lost hand 1, but hand 2 I think we could be ahead.

I think I call hand 1 just because your turn bet made our hand look pretty weak.
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miracleriver
Old 06-12-2007, 02:54 PM #12 (permalink)  
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The consensus is that we are beat in hand 1. I didnt see it that way (ok, I am a uber noob.) What do you put villain on? 55,66, QJ? Anything else?
 
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pokerfan
Old 06-12-2007, 07:29 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Based on my read, that guy was loose aggressive and made a few donkey bets when acting first.Reraising back against LAGG is my normal play though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Mac
I don't like the flop three bet in hand 2. With position and a dry board I like to call and re-evaluate on the turn.
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pokerfan
Old 06-12-2007, 07:33 PM #14 (permalink)  
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yeah, i should've just checked behind on the turn and kept the pot relatively small with unimproved one pair hand. Alway pot size philosophy is that big pots and big bets are for big hands and small pots and small bets are for small hands
Quote:
Originally Posted by griffey24
If you're only gonna bet $20 in hand 1, you might as well check through.

As played, I think I call both due to pot odds. I wouldn't be surprised if you lost hand 1, but hand 2 I think we could be ahead.

I think I call hand 1 just because your turn bet made our hand look pretty weak.
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wufwugy
Old 06-12-2007, 10:06 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miracleriver
The consensus is that we are beat in hand 1. I didnt see it that way (ok, I am a uber noob.) What do you put villain on? 55,66, QJ? Anything else?
flop villian check/raises top pair because he's a fish.

turn villian check/calls because he's a fish frightened of a better kicker or overpair.

river villian bets out because he's a fish that beats aces.
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wufwugy
Old 06-12-2007, 10:15 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerfan
yeah, i should've just checked behind on the turn and kept the pot relatively small with unimproved one pair hand. Alway pot size philosophy is that [b]big pots and big bets are for big hands and small pots and small bets are for small hands
its close whether to bet turn check river, or check turn call river. both have pros and cons. i tend to default the former though.
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pokerfan
Old 06-12-2007, 11:47 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Hand 1:
i thought a long time before laying down AA Luckybastard

Hand 2:
without thinking twice, i called his river bet instantly. That guy turned over
:Ac: . Also, when he did the same thing after a few hands, i stacked him with my measly TPGK

:P
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