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How do you gain more profit here, without risking too much?

  
 
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mpqz
Old 09-17-2004, 10:50 PM     Post subject: How do you gain more profit here, without risking too much? #1 (permalink)  

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mpqz
You're at a new table (haven't been there longer than 5 min) in a ring game.

You're UTG and you're delt 77. Limping in (because you really have no idea how the table plays), a few others limp, and the money leader limps from the button.

Rx = Rag, not suited

Flop is: Jh 7h Rx

Do you:

A) Fire off a massive bet, hoping to scare everyone out except someone with 2 pair, or possibly Ah/Kh Jx.

B) Make a small raise (2-4xBB) and hopefully a few others follow (with intentions of re-raising someone who re-raised you)

C) Make a slightly larger than normal bet, which would probably scare most people off unless they had 2 hearts (and they were in position to act depending on how many people call)

Unfortunately (even though I did win), I went with A. Because I figured B is exactly what a heart draw wants right? He wants to call a small bet with a few people calling as well, to get a big pot without investing much. If his final heart hits, he'll most likely take down a nice sized pot.

I figured a massive bet would look like I'm a maniac who's trying to steal the pot. If the money leader was suspicious, he'd probably call if he caught TPTK (especially something like Ah Jx to give him the nut flush draw too).

He ended up calling my ridiculous bet, but on the turn a heart dropped. I did what I think now is stupid and I checked. Since I had no idea what kind of player he is, the thought crossed my mind he might have called with 2 hearts.

When he checked, I assumed he had 1 heart, and got his free card, the river ended up being a rag. I made a nice sized bet (something callable), and he did call. He mucked so I dunno what he had, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did have 2 pair or 4 to the flush with a jack.

What do you think? Should I have made the same sized bet on the turn as I did on the river? Do people like to slow play made flushes on the turn, in hopes you fire another large bet?

I didn't think he had JJ because he didn't raise pre-flop, and he checked the turn. Would someone with top set come over the top of someone who bet huge on the flop, or at least bet the turn when a scare card for him came up (a heart)?
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Fnord
Old 09-17-2004, 10:56 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Screw risk, you have a set, you want your chips in the center of the table. It's now just a matter of doing whatever you think will get as many players as possible to put in as many chips as possible with worse hands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
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Humphrind
Old 09-17-2004, 10:56 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Fire away.

I'm assuming NL. I'd put a pretty sizable bet. If the pot is big, size it with the pot. If the pot is still small, you can usually make it bigger than the pot.
I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
 
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mpqz
Old 09-17-2004, 11:43 PM #4 (permalink)  

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mpqz
Yeah it's no limit.

fnord, I posted this because that's exactly my question.

Ok, leading off with a pot sized pot (or a bit higher) sounds good.

Turn brings a possible made flush. Do you bet the same as you did on the flop (not showing any sign of weakness or strength), or do you bet the pot again (which is quite a bit more)?

Maybe you should bet half the pot on the turn, and see if he comes over the top. If he does, is he bluffing, perhaps he made the flush, or maybe he made 2 pairs.

If you call his re-raise, and the river brings a card that wouldn't help him, do you fire again? If there's not a heart there, I think there's a good chance of winning the pot, and if a heart drops, you're probably beat.

It's all those choices that confuse me, and I realize there's no guarenteed answer, but I do know a lot of you have played SO many hands, I'm looking for the general range of hands someone would have if they called such a bet on the flop.
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Fnord
Old 09-22-2004, 10:27 AM #5 (permalink)  
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I'm inclined to check/call the turn if the flush comes per Reverse Gap Theory.

In any case, I certainly am not folding...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Krapp
Old 09-22-2004, 06:12 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I would be inclined to fire away but not too big, maybe somwhere close to the pot. Even if a heart drops I do believe you need to bet again. Chances are your opp does not have a flush and you have the better hand. In that case, you need to make anyone pay that wants to stay in. You should get play from any one with AJ, 2-pair, lower trips, KK, QQ, AA, etc.
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