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Keilah

07-04-2008, 12:45 AM Post subject: How do I not suck

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Northern BC, Canada

Posts: 658

K with this 2xFPP thing all the TAG regs are out in force at 100NL. Thing is, I'm TAG myself and nothing is happening... it's back and forth, smallball forever, once in a while someone hits a set vs overpair and takes half a stack, but vs the regs I'm pretty much just even.

And for some reason, I can't seem to find many donks to stack off light (and when they do, they suck out on me LOL).

So my question is, how do I beat all these nitty TAGS? I remember reading once that the cure to TAGs is not to play more hands... but I forget what the cure actually is =]

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badgers

07-04-2008, 01:17 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Spewing

Posts: 3,372

Beats me.... I guess this is the downside to being a mediocre tag that doesn't fight regs all that much.

3k post - Return of the blog!

Fnord

07-04-2008, 01:22 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

It's easier to exploit them at 6 max.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Keilah

07-04-2008, 01:58 AM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Northern BC, Canada

Posts: 658

wow you too huh badgers. yAAwn was in the same boat but I think he made it to breakeven yesterday.

Anyone? Cmon there must be a reason everyone loosens up at higher limits

pokerfan

07-04-2008, 01:46 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2007

Location: NS, Canada

Posts: 1,736

i neither lost nor won money against stars 100NL regulars in these 2xFPP days but got sucked out by a few huge donks like crazy. Only up 2 buy-ins over 12k hands. i tried to fight back against some aggressive TA regulars and ended up with much higher aggression in later streets on both sides. i posted one hand for example.
villain is 13/10/3.5 over 2500 hands. i thought my bluff line was good against this guy who tried to steal on the CO but i didnt expect him to shove on this blank river. He showed off his stuff after the hand and said "blah blah nh" in the chat box .

PokerStars Pot-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 ($11.60)
MP1 ($48.80)
MP2 ($27.25)
MP3 ($43.25)
CO ($111.55)
Button ($103.60)
SB ($53.20)
Hero ($142.90)
UTG ($107.75)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K

, Q

.
5 folds, CO raises to $3.5, 2 folds, Hero calls $2.50.

Flop: ($7.50) 9

, T

, 6

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $5, Hero raises to $17.5, CO calls $12.50.

Turn: ($42.50) T

(2 players)
Hero bets $26.5, CO calls $26.50.

River: ($95.50) 2

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $64.05 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $95.50

his hand is here:
CO had QJo

Muzzard

07-04-2008, 03:04 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Cheshire, UK

Posts: 1,843

I'm running into the same stuff @ 50NL. I'm up like $60 over 8k hands lol, at least I got fpps value

Keilah

07-04-2008, 04:50 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Northern BC, Canada

Posts: 658

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfan

Yup same here. Except I got sucked out on by more than a few, and I also spewed a few buyins because I'm like "wtf come on I always have the goods just fold."

kingnat

07-04-2008, 07:08 PM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 827

kingnat is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keilah

I also spewed a few buyins because I'm like "wtf come on I always have the goods just fold."

This loses me a lot of money,

So you click their picture and then you get their money?

Fnord

07-04-2008, 07:37 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

This fucker was really really asking for a spanking.

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
PokerStars
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG twoscooprice ($204.35)
UTG+1 cdawgrbi ($65.55)
CO Mckittrick19 ($210.85)
BTN Hero ($232.85)
SB sexuelity ($198.00)
BB magicalcow ($419.35)

Pre-flop: ($3, 6 players) Hero is BTN

3 folds, Hero raises to $6, sexuelity raises to $20, 1 fold, Hero calls $14

Flop:

($42, 2 players)
sexuelity bets $22, Hero calls $22

Turn:

($86, 2 players)
sexuelity bets $42, Hero goes all-in $190.85, sexuelity folds

Final Pot: $170

Hero wins $315.85 ( won +$83.00 )
sexuelity lost -$84.00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Keilah

07-04-2008, 07:55 PM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Northern BC, Canada

Posts: 658

yknow something on the plus side this is forcing me to focus and play a better game.

Fnord: This looks like a hand I could learn from - thought processes?

Fnord

07-05-2008, 01:57 AM

#11 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keilah

Fnord: This looks like a hand I could learn from - thought processes?

Pre-flop: He 3-bets A LOT. AT doesn't excite me, but it was probably time to take a flop and see what he's going to do.

Flop: Easy flat because so many hands have equity here. I have position and figure that I'll peel.

Turn: Bit of a timing tell. His bet didn't really sell me and he's so aggro I don't think it defines his hand too much other than I think he's checking a lot of hands with showdown value. Plus the 3-bet then half pot 3 streets shit is straight out of the Cardrunners playbook. Figure he's calling any set, Queen or Seven here but probably checking a lot of showdown hands and bet/fold bluffing the rest of his range. So I decided to turn my hand into a bluff and hope he's got some small pair or small suited crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Keilah

07-05-2008, 03:21 AM

#12 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Northern BC, Canada

Posts: 658

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Plus the 3-bet then half pot 3 streets shit is straight out of the Cardrunners playbook.

Hmmm? I'm not a cardrunners user, what's the deal with this line?

Keilah

07-05-2008, 03:25 AM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Northern BC, Canada

Posts: 658

BTW, to answer my own question, it works good to play supertight in EP/MP then lag it up in LP.

i tried it and i ran 18/13 but really it was like 6/5 in EP/MP and 27/21 LP at least. Probably stole too often from the SB tho.

Fnord

07-05-2008, 05:38 AM

#14 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...lc-t72789.html

My steal numbers are in there.

Does this hand make me a huge donk?

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
PokerStars
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($508.10)
UTG+1 ($194.35)
CO ($204.00)
BTN ($200.00)
Hero ($313.85)
BB ($197.00)

Pre-flop: ($3, 6 players) Hero is SB

2 folds, CO raises to $7, 1 fold, Hero raises to $21, 1 fold, CO calls $14

Flop:

($44, 2 players)
Hero bets $30, CO raises to $68, Hero calls $38

Turn:

($180, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $65, Hero goes all-in $224.85, CO goes all-in $50

River:

($519.85, 2 players)

Final Pot: $410
CO shows:

Hero shows:

Hero wins $516.85 ( won +$203 )
CO lost -$204.00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

JinxT4

07-05-2008, 07:22 AM Post subject: Re: How do I not suck

#15 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2007

Posts: 265

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keilah

K with this 2xFPP thing all the TAG regs are out in force at 100NL. Thing is, I'm TAG myself and nothing is happening... it's back and forth, smallball forever, once in a while someone hits a set vs overpair and takes half a stack, but vs the regs I'm pretty much just even.

And for some reason, I can't seem to find many donks to stack off light (and when they do, they suck out on me LOL).

So my question is, how do I beat all these nitty TAGS? I remember reading once that the cure to TAGs is not to play more hands... but I forget what the cure actually is =]

QFT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzzard

I'm running into the same stuff @ 50NL. I'm up like $60 over 8k hands lol, at least I got fpps value

You play weird.

Muzzard

07-05-2008, 10:28 AM Post subject: Re: How do I not suck

#16 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Cheshire, UK

Posts: 1,843

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keilah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzzard

I'm running into the same stuff @ 50NL. I'm up like $60 over 8k hands lol, at least I got fpps value

You play weird.

JinxT4

07-06-2008, 06:17 AM Post subject: Re: How do I not suck

#17 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2007

Posts: 265

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzzard

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinxT4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzzard

I'm running into the same stuff @ 50NL. I'm up like $60 over 8k hands lol, at least I got fpps value

You play weird.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($50)
UTG ($50.75)
UTG+1 ($22.45)
MP1 ($38.20)
MP2 ($48.50)
Poker_Muzz ($50)
CO ($67.50)
Button ($72.70)
SB ($50.75)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K

, A

.
4 folds, Poker_Muzz raises to $1.5, 3 folds, Hero raises to $5.5, Poker_Muzz calls $4.

Flop: ($11.25) 7

, A

, 7

(2 players)
Hero bets $7, Poker_Muzz calls $7.

Turn: ($25.25) 9

(2 players)
Hero checks, Poker_Muzz checks.

River: ($25.25) 8

(2 players)
Hero bets $16, Poker_Muzz raises to $37.5, Hero calls $21.50 (All-In).

Final Pot: $100.25

Results:
Hero has Kh As (two pair, aces and sevens).
Poker_Muzz has 9s 9h (full house, nines full of sevens).

Outcome: Poker_Muzz wins $100.25.

Fnord

07-06-2008, 08:45 AM

#18 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

You're vastly over-estimating how often that's a bluff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Fnord

07-06-2008, 08:48 AM

#19 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Opponent was like 19/17 over ~200ish hands and a regular multi-tabler. Has yet to do anything but fold to 3-bets. I've 3-bet him light a couple times because it's free money, but last time was at least an orbit ago.

After an entire night where I hadn't been all-in for $200+, I seriously considered folding this.

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
PokerStars
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG NL Tino ($175.00)
UTG+1 BLACKICE781 ($201.60)
CO xilehz ($54.85)
BTN Hero ($200.00)
SB j0hndayt0n ($427.40)
BB Ck1ko ($437.00)

Pre-flop: ($3, 6 players) Hero is BTN

1 fold, BLACKICE781 raises to $8, 1 fold, Hero raises to $24, 2 folds, BLACKICE781 calls $16

Flop:

($51, 2 players)
BLACKICE781 checks, Hero bets $30, BLACKICE781 raises to $80, Hero goes all-in $176, BLACKICE781 calls $96

Turn:

($403, 2 players)

River:

($403, 2 players)

Final Pot: $403
BLACKICE781 shows:

Hero shows:

Hero wins $400 ( won +$200 )
BLACKICE781 lost -$200.00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

JinxT4

07-06-2008, 09:14 AM

#20 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2007

Posts: 265

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

You're vastly over-estimating how often that's a bluff.

What?

I figured he thought he was value shoving AK/AQ/77. Those were about the only 3 hands I put in his range (maybe KQdd). Not sure what you mean about the bluffing. Idk, I just didn't think a reg would call that flop with 99.

Fnord

07-06-2008, 09:16 AM

#21 (permalink)

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Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinxT4

I figured he thought he was value shoving AK/AQ/77. Those were about the only 3 hands I put in his range (maybe KQdd). Not sure what you mean about the bluffing.

I can count on my hands the people who I've played with who I know are capable of bluffing often enough there. That said, I know this because I pay it off like a slot machine.

On the river, what's his range before you value block? How many Ax hands is he calling 3-bets with?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

JinxT4

07-06-2008, 09:21 AM

#22 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2007

Posts: 265

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinxT4

I figured he thought he was value shoving AK/AQ/77. Those were about the only 3 hands I put in his range (maybe KQdd). Not sure what you mean about the bluffing.

I can count on my hands the people who I've played with who I know are capable of bluffing often enough there.

Still unsure what you mean... I never thought he was bluffing.

I thought that he most likely didn't have a flush, but that he thought his AK/AQ was good.

*Edit* Stop editing your post. :P 2 (AK/AQ)?

Fnord

07-06-2008, 09:23 AM

#23 (permalink)

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Posts: 19,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinxT4

AK/AQ was good.

AK flats and is never folding. AQ is a very small part of his range with 3 Aces in sight.

I think the river bet is a blocker and to balance out all of the times you might be betting there with crap.

That said, check/call is a vastly better line, particularly with so much distrust in the air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

JinxT4

07-06-2008, 09:29 AM

#24 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2007

Posts: 265

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

AK flats and there is no value in a bluff. AQ is a very small part of his range with 3 Aces in sight.

I think the river bet is a blocker and to balance out all of the times I'm betting there with crap.

Idk, I play bad.

Also, sorry about derailing your thread Keilah.

smeach

07-06-2008, 03:16 PM

#25 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2008

Posts: 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

My steal numbers are in there.

Does this hand make me a huge donk?

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
PokerStars
6 players

Stacks:
UTG ($508.10)
UTG+1 ($194.35)
CO ($204.00)
BTN ($200.00)
Hero ($313.85)
BB ($197.00)

Pre-flop: ($3, 6 players) Hero is SB

2 folds, CO raises to $7, 1 fold, Hero raises to $21, 1 fold, CO calls $14

Flop:

($44, 2 players)
Hero bets $30, CO raises to $68, Hero calls $38

Turn:

($180, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $65, Hero goes all-in $224.85, CO goes all-in $50

River:

($519.85, 2 players)

Final Pot: $410
CO shows:

Hero shows:

Hero wins $516.85 ( won +$203 )
CO lost -$204.00

I love this hand. Nice work. Had the CO been getting out of hand, prompting your pf rr, or was it a random whim? Either way, you played it splendidly on each street.

Fnord

07-06-2008, 09:50 PM

#26 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeach

Had the CO been getting out of hand, prompting your pf rr, or was it a random whim?

I target very specific types of players with that play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

aka_red

07-07-2008, 02:52 AM

#27 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: house

Posts: 903

my stats for regweek

grow a sack and fight some regs.

[11:11] <+bikes> bitches love your face

Fnord

07-07-2008, 02:56 AM

#28 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Red, well played sir.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Keilah

07-07-2008, 10:18 AM

#29 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Northern BC, Canada

Posts: 658

gw. I never understand why VP$IP and PFR are so far apart on PT2, its hard to read

gametight

07-07-2008, 06:22 PM

#30 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Posts: 494

Red, since when do you play 12/10?? You tighten up a bit since you got to 200nl?

I remember you being at least like 16/13 when I played with you at 100nl all the time.

Renton

07-07-2008, 08:47 PM

#31 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

3-bet in position

raise preflop / bet flop

07-08-2008, 02:10 AM

#32 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

I play very laggy and see lots of flops and take them away from you tags

aka_red

07-08-2008, 10:02 AM

#33 (permalink)

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Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: house

Posts: 903

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

I play very laggy and see lots of flops and take them away from you tags

KOOL?

[11:11] <+bikes> bitches love your face

07-08-2008, 01:32 PM

#34 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by reDZill4

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

I play very laggy and see lots of flops and take them away from you tags

KOOL?

Is that not sucking? I thought it was not sucking.

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