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| Pythonic |
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His bet was too big on river to justify a call I think............. POKERSTARS GAME #10295241521: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.05/$0.10) - 2007/06/06 - 01:05:12 (ET) Table 'Charon IV' 9-max Seat #4 is the button Seat 1: DERUY ($10.10 in chips) Seat 2: KAAAA ($7.30 in chips) Seat 3: Pythonic ($26.95 in chips) Seat 4: Harrylux ($14 in chips) Seat 7: AnarchyKid24 ($7.05 in chips) Seat 8: angelique924 ($9.80 in chips) Seat 9: pr1me_time1 ($19.65 in chips) AnarchyKid24: posts small blind $0.05 angelique924: posts big blind $0.10 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Pythonic [Jd Jh] pr1me_time1: folds DERUY: raises $0.30 to $0.40 KAAAA: folds Pythonic: calls $0.40 Harrylux: folds AnarchyKid24: folds angelique924: folds *** FLOP *** [Td 7s Jc] DERUY: bets $0.70 Pythonic: raises $0.70 to $1.40 DERUY: calls $0.70 *** TURN *** [Td 7s Jc] [Kh] DERUY: checks Pythonic: checks *** RIVER *** [Td 7s Jc Kh] [4h] DERUY: bets $5 Pythonic said, "AQ or KK?" Pythonic said, "laying down JJJ, nh" Pythonic: folds DERUY collected $3.60 from pot DERUY: doesn't show hand |
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Play for FREE and practice your game at...Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting! | |||||
| dmg7 |
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are you joking? you can't seriously put him on a 2 hand range? you should of raised more on flop, you should of bet the turn, but as played you should be shoving over him @ 10NL, most of the time he will flip over AK/KJ/QJ. this is a call at worst imo. |
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| jyms |
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| Brutally played preflop. Think about what he puts you on. You called a 4BB raise preflop, then min raised the flop bet. then when he checks his crap on the turn to find out where you are after re-raising the flop you check behind. He decided to bluff you off a hand you played like a weak TP or MP hand. You are so far ahead here and left so much money on the table it's not funny. Then to top it off, you tell him how bad you played by telling him your laydown, showing you cna be bluffed off of a monster. | ||||
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| dmg7 |
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it sounds harsh, but you couldn't of played the hand much worse, he bluffed you off the pot because you told him you had an awful hand, played it like an awful hand, then folded like an awful hand... YET you had a very very very good hand 
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| Jimmy Mac |
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Weird. Just make it like $2.50 on the flop and try to get the rest in ASAP. You flopped top set in a raised pot dude. Unless the board goes 4 straight or 4 flush my stack is going in every time here. IF you get coolered just reload and move on 
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| Pythonic |
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| Villian had AQs. I know the guy and he emailed me hand history later. | ||||
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Never bet on a white man in the heavyweight division!
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| dmg7 |
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| what he had is totally irrelevant, your being results orientated. | ||||
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| gingerwizard |
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3bet preflop Hammer the flop. get it all in on the turn fill up on the river. You are destined to be a losing player if you don't play big pairs and top sets hard. |
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This is not my signature. I just write this at the bottom of every post.
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| Pythonic |
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I was trying to somewhat slowplay the flop in case he had AK and did not want him to fold if I raised too much on the flop. This is only the second time I have layed down trips like this in my life and have been right both times. His giant $5 bet on the river gave it away and I am just good at reading people. I assure you that I am a winning player. My BB/100 is 18.79 for the last 20,000 hands. |
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Never bet on a white man in the heavyweight division!
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| gingerwizard |
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Well Ive played a good 5k hands with DERUY from 10NL and he is/was a calling station with any or most draws. If I had a hand with him I bet bet bet. Is his avatar the two fit chicks still? Congrats on the winrate. Why you not moved up making $4ish per 100 hands. You should have won enough to play 25NL by now. |
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This is not my signature. I just write this at the bottom of every post.
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| biondino |
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That was disgusting. If you ever fold here again you should be shot. You are TERRIBLE at reading people because even if AQ was in his range, so were a dozen other hands you beat. It's impossible to put a player on one or two hands on a board like this, simply impossible. Do you really think an overbet of this sort on the river is always the nuts? That's so far from the truth that it hurts to see you sticking to your beliefs in the face of advice. Anyway, nh, but not nf. Good luck and I hope you are learning from these posts, not refusing to take on board what we're saying. |
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| thizzSantaCruz |
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| Yea you played that pretty bad. Raise more on the flop, fire turn, try to get your stack all in. Villain is a donk. | ||||
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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| Pythonic |
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I made a great read you people are butchering me. Like I said, I have only folded hands like this twice in my life and have been right "both" times. Biondino: I understand what you are saying but I know how villian plays and made the right play because it isn't impossible to put people on hands. |
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Never bet on a white man in the heavyweight division!
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| IowaSkinsFan |
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Raise the flop more bet the turn and get the rest in. Christ!!! Seriously you have a set. Rule of thumb. When you have a set get it all in! |
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Check out the new blog!!!
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| Pythonic |
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| I thought we are supposed to smooth call the flop with a set and then reraise the turn??? | ||||
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Never bet on a white man in the heavyweight division!
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| Pythonic |
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| Pythonic |
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| Trashcona |
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| overdraft |
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Q9 beats you too but I think you are missing the point. All that people are saying is that is ludicrous to think that you can put a person on such a miniscule hand range especially with this board texture. But you made a read and went with it so hopefully that continues to work for you. od |
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| Pythonic |
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Villian is around 34/12, so he could have been holding 8/9 or Q/9. Alarms simply went off with a raise that big on the river. He checked the turn looking to check raise me but I sniffed it out. That and I had won like 3 big pots in row and we all know how that goes online. He later went on to say that he only should have bet $2 on the river because his bet gave it away. |
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Never bet on a white man in the heavyweight division!
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| Ash256 |
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I prefer raising the flop and shoving the turn, but meh, it depends on so much stuff. What I'm saying is that there's not a particular way of playing a hand like "THIS IS HOW YOU PLAY A SET".. Getting out of the mindset that I've quoted is how you improve at poker. HH was butchery, as everyone else has said. I think this is very often a threebet preflop as well, although I'm not too sure looking at what others have said. |
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| Pythonic |
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| I typically get all of my money in with sets but this hand didnt seem right to me. I don't like reraising JJ preflop because I don't think I know how to play it correctly when overcards come on the board. | ||||
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Never bet on a white man in the heavyweight division!
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| jyms |
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By the way your being results oriented. The money has to go in, all of it. He could have an underset as easily as KJ, in this hand. |
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| Trashcona |
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For whatever it's worth at this point, here's my line: 3bet preflop to $1.20 with the intentions of taking down the pot or seeing the flop heads up against villain. If villain repops it, we can then put him on a much more narrow range and depending on the size of the 4bet we're either done with the hand or we have great odds to set hunt. I think this way, we have an easier time getting it all in on the flop/turn if villain has any kind of a hand. It's been awhile, but wasn't it Sklansky who said in NLT&P that when you flop a set you should try and size your bets so that getting it all in by the river is academic, assuming villain is coming along for the ride. As played I hate the minbet on the flop and the check behind on the turn(bleh!). I push everytime on the river though. |
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| Pythonic |
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| dmg7 |
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this sounds harsh but the way you've responded to peoples advice, (players obviously of far greater ability and experience than you at this moment), makes me think your just chatting out of your backside. Especially the whole email rubbish, if you was SO sure he had AQ why did you even need to email him asking? because to fold JJJ you had to be pretty 100% confident thats what he was holding. |
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| dmg7 |
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| to another point, regardless of the fold, you played the flop terribadly as well. | ||||
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| Pythonic |
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I already said the flop was played bad but only because of what the turn brought, i was trying to slowplay and it backfired. I planned on raising or reraising the turn but after re-evalauting decided not to. I listen to people's advise on here but this was one of those circumstances where you have to go against what you normally would do. I was beat on the turn by the size of the river bet and if nobody can see that then oh well. |
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| Pythonic |
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| EzDuzIt |
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lol this thread was pretty funny preflop and every street is played horribly. the results dont matter here. neither does running hot at 10nl. |
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| Pythonic |
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| Saved money regardless of how it was played. | ||||
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Never bet on a white man in the heavyweight division!
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| jyms |
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Quote:
First off, this was not the original thread title. Second, you posted this looking for a pat on the back for a great laydown. Third, not re raising JJ in this position is costing you a lot of money fourth, defending a hand played by the results, which you claim to be AQ, instead of played, is not what we are here to do. If you knew what he had and made such a great fucken lay down, post it in the tales forum, not the fucken HH forum where people comment on the play of a hand, not your mind reading ability. As played, you lost a lot of money, doesn't matter what he had. And not re raising JJ and not raising JJJ on the flop of a $!0NL game is spew. GL with your HUGE BR, you will need it. |
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| Pythonic |
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| Trainer: Only done this twice and was right both times. Nuff said....... | ||||
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Never bet on a white man in the heavyweight division!
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| EzDuzIt |
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| EzDuzIt |
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so my harsh response: you fucking suck and have no idea what you are doing by the looks of this hand. |
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| Pythonic |
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| Pythonic |
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| EzDuzIt |
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trap on the flop?? evaluating after the turn card?? you didnt trap the flop... your evaluation was to check behind on the turn??????? that makes no sense. |
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| jyms |
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DERUY: checks Pythonic: checks *** RIVER *** [Td 7s Jc Kh] [4h] DERUY: bets $5 Pythonic said, "AQ or KK?" Pythonic said, "laying down JJJ, nh" Pythonic: folds DERUY collected $3.60 from pot Trapping at $10NL is a useless move when players will call down with TPMK for stacks. Get the money in when ahead and leave the tricks for your move to $25NL where they are much better, |
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| EzDuzIt |
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KK? does it look like he has KK? no. but if he were to have a hand like that you would probably find out a lot easier by playing this correctly. |
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| jyms |
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| Keep changing the title you'll get it right soon enough. And if you don't want to hear the truth why do you keep changing the title to questions like "good fold?" "How did I play this?" What are you waiting to hear??? | ||||
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| Pythonic |
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| Pythonic |
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| Pythonic |
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| biondino |
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Pythonic, 4 times you've said "right twice". But you're not clueless about poker and you've obviously read lots of FTR. So, you'll know about sample sizes. You will know, deep down even if you're not admitting to yourself, that a sample size of two is worth LITERALLY zero. Nothing. This guy is a 34/12. Now, you're right in that this increases his range to include 89 and Q9, at a push. But - and this is where you're bloodymindedly refusing to see the point - it's his RANGE that matters here. You have to call, or raise, or fold, depending on how often you think you're ahead or behind. So, I am going to list, here, the hands that you beat and the hands you don't beat, going on what a 34/12 might realistically be playing. I hope you agree that the flop action and turn action give almost no clue as to villain's hand. You beat on flop (hands that are good enough to bet - though obv any two cards are good enough to cbet - and then call your raise, assuming a normal 34/12): AA AK AQ AJ AT KQ KJ KT QJ JT TT T7 77 You beat from turn and river: Kxs 44 K4 Hands that beat you on flop: 89 KK Hands that beat you on river: Q9 AQ Now, as for the big river bet. I'm sure you understand that poker is, in part, about misleading your opponent. So, it's not a big leap to assume that a big bet of this type actually DOESN'T want to be called. This - combined with the villain's check on the turn (which again *could* mean strength, but also will usually mean weakness) - indicates that a bluff, or a big bet with a marginal hand - which is often a leak, but a common one at low levels - is part of his range as well. Even if he is bluffing only 20% of the time, that makes a massive difference to your odds when it comes to you call/raising his bet. So, to sum up: of the hands a 34/12 is likely to have played, you are ahead of 18 (generously counting Kxs as one hand, and air as one hand) and behind 4. Weighting them all the same (which is slightly inaccurate as pairs are dealt a lot less often than unpaired hands, but the difference is small enough to ignore here), this puts you ahead OVER 80% OF THE TIME. Let's be even more generous to you here. Let's say you have SUCH strong read on this guy - despite him being a $10nl player with imbalanced stats - that you think a big bet means a monster, say 50% of the time. Well, that means that rather than being ahead 80% of the time, you're only ahead 40% of the time. But guess what! Even if, with your own monster hand (and second set IS a monster, believe me) you are only 40% to win - you are still egtting odds to call! You are being asked to put $5 into a $8.75 pot. Therefore, you only need to be ahead 36% of the time for this to be call. So, even in the worst case scenario - one in which you have superhuman reads - it is -EV to fold here. THAT'S why people are telling you this hand cost you money - because although you got lucky here, if you play the hand 1000 times over, you'll lose a significant amount of money despite holding a monster. (epilogue - one sure way to become a bad/losing poker player is to look at positive results to bad mistakes and think "because it worked out that time, I must have played it right". This is the perfect example of such thinking. You MUST lose this attitude or you will end up either going broke or, at best, being unable to progress beyond the lowest levels.) |
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| biondino |
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| Oh and one further thought. His check on the turn COULD mean he wants to check raise or trap you - but it might also mean he has a marginal hand - AT, say - a drawing hand, or nothing at all, and he doesn't want to put any more money in. I'm sorry, it's IMPOSSIBLE to have a strong read here that this check means the nuts, though you are, of course, right to consider it as one of many options. | ||||
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| jyms |
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| Wow, I never thought someone would go thru the trouble of typing all that out. But yea, what Biondino said. | ||||
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| biondino |
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| Sorry to bang on! Let's say that the guy had turned over AK - a perfectly reasonable hand to value bet on the river, seeing as there's no flush, middling chance of a straight, and no paired cards. How would you have felt then? Would you still be asking "good fold"? Because if not, then you are admitting that you've been results oriented. | ||||
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| biondino |
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| Apologies - you also beat KK on the flop, where you have the 2nd nuts, not 3rd nuts. This makes little difference to my argument. | ||||
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| gingerwizard |
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DERUY is not 34/12. Look back on it and tell us what "read" led you to think you were behind. Since there were virtually no bets you must have an electronic tell. (Most of us make our reads via evaluating the action and using our experience to narrow the range of our opponents hands). If you had an electronic tell (say the way the alarm beeped to warn you time bank would be activated was a couple of decibels higher than normal) then lay it down by all means. |
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This is not my signature. I just write this at the bottom of every post.
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| Latest Poker News | |
| dlbarlowe |
06-01-2012, 11:03 AM White House Responds to Poker Players Alliance's Petition
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| After receiving a petition scripted by the Poker Players Alliance approximately eight months ago, the Obama administration recently issued a response prepared by Brian Deese, the Deputy Director of th ... | |
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