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how big of a bet before folding AKs pre-flop?

  
 
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bspahn
Old 01-04-2005, 01:49 AM     Post subject: how big of a bet before folding AKs pre-flop? #1 (permalink)  
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bspahn
----------------------------------------------------------------

Hand #3858813-129 at Vici (No Limit Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 03/Jan/05 21:43:44

BLucky is at seat 0 with $0 (sitting out).
krazyoldman is at seat 1 with $9.30.
Vikings Fan84 is at seat 2 with $22.
Aunt B is at seat 3 with $22.75.
SoftwareG33K is at seat 4 with $41.65.
mamaritz is at seat 5 with $8.25.
FiveColorFat is at seat 6 with $25.75.
suzie79 is at seat 7 with $27.80.
houmann is at seat 8 with $35.60.
DevilRay is at seat 9 with $10.
The button is at seat 0.

krazyoldman posts the small blind of $.10.
Vikings Fan84 posts the big blind of $.25.
DevilRay posts out of turn for $.25.

krazyoldman: -- --
Vikings Fan84: -- --
Aunt B: -- --
SoftwareG33K: -- --
mamaritz: -- --
FiveColorFat: -- --
suzie79: Ah Kh
houmann: -- --
DevilRay: -- --

Pre-flop:

Aunt B folds. SoftwareG33K folds. mamaritz folds.
FiveColorFat folds. suzie79 raises to $.65. houmann
folds. DevilRay calls. krazyoldman re-raises to
$3.35. Vikings Fan84 folds. suzie79 folds.
DevilRay folds. krazyoldman is returned $2.70
(uncalled).



Hand #3858813-129 Summary:

No rake is taken for this hand.
krazyoldman wins $2.20.
----------------------------------------------------------------
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jokerindapack
Old 01-04-2005, 02:32 AM #2 (permalink)  
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You can't fold AKs even on that type of raise pre-flop. Call it at the very least and if you miss your flop the whole way (no hearts no A or K) and this guy goes all in then it's up to your reads.

By the way do you have a read on this player?
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a500lbgorilla
Old 01-04-2005, 02:39 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Depends on how tight krazyold man is. If he's a rock, it's a good fold.

-'rilla

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You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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jokerindapack
Old 01-04-2005, 02:41 AM #4 (permalink)  
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I guess that's why we need a read of some sort. I'd still call just to see a flop even if he is tighter than Marsha Brady on prom night.
"You can't lose what you don't put into the middle, but you can't win much either." - Rounders
 
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bspahn
Old 01-04-2005, 03:01 AM #5 (permalink)  
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bspahn
he was a new player, only played a few hands, nothing concrete really. also if you guys could give me some simple guidelines as to what exactly to look for and note down about individual players that would help.

Also, is there a chart of what starting hands have for % against each other such as AKs vs AA or KK etc? if I call the $3 and the flop is rags and really doesn't help me, and i check and the guy bets then what do i do on the flop ??
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Sed
Old 01-04-2005, 03:33 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bspahn
if I call the $3 and the flop is rags and really doesn't help me, and i check and the guy bets then what do i do on the flop ??
fold...

- sed
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FlyingSaucy
Old 01-04-2005, 02:01 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Yup, it's a good fold. Unless he is known to be loose, you have to assume he's got at least a pocket pair. No preflop hand is a sure thing, especially AKs against a big reraise.

Let's look at your alternatives.

Pushing all in you are likely facing a coin flip because you probably won't get a fold out of him. Obviously you want to avoid a coinflip unless you are one of those guys who wishes he were playing roulette instead of poker. And there is a possiblitiy he's got AA or KK, in which case, pack your bags.

Calling, there are pretty much only a handful of flops that will make you feel completely comfortable. So assuming you don't hit one of these miracle flops (flop a flush or boat), he'll either smell the weakness and rep trips, or he actually will hit trips, or have an overpair. You're screwed. Even if you hit TPTK on the flop, there will be scare cards out there to make you uncertain. If the guy has any read on you what so ever, he'll put the pressure on you. Now what do you do? Folding this early on saves you a ton of cash in the long run.
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Old 01-04-2005, 02:17 PM #8 (permalink)  
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I might call to see a flop, I love seeing flops with AKs.

But then again, if that guy was known to be a tight player, fold.
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Running Gag
Old 01-04-2005, 06:33 PM #9 (permalink)  

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Running Gag
Personally, I think AK (suited or not), is a terrible hand to call preflop with. By just calling, you're surrendering all initiative and whatever slight edge you may have against the other player(s) in the pot. Always either raise or fold. If you raise a decent amount and only get called you can be pretty sure you're up against AQ, AJ, KQ (if they're really loose), all of which you're favorites against, or pp's less than Qs, in which case it's a coinflip, and you might be able to outplay if any paint flops.

In this particular scenario, having no read on the player, I'd probably fold, and wait to see what kind of hands he's showing down, although your initial raise (a lil' over 2xBB) seems weak, and he might have just been capitalizing.
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whileone
Old 01-04-2005, 07:15 PM #10 (permalink)  
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whileone
push or fold. if the bet is big, and you're worried about not hitting the flop, basicly getting out played, push or fold.

AK is a big hand, you are a favorite to pretty much anything but pocket pairs. no one will call you crazy for going all in pre flop with AK. It may not be the perfect play, but it will get you through until you feel more comfortable with the post flop play.

also, in most of these posts you call a whole lot. maybe these are extrodinary examples, but you should consider raising or folding far more often than you just call. if the hand isn't worth a raise, it definitly isn't worth a call.
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twosevoff
Old 01-05-2005, 02:43 AM #11 (permalink)  
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I would call the additional $2.70 preflop in a heartbeat, unless you have a strong suspicion that he's holding AA or KK as opposed to 99-QQ, AQ, or worse. If I miss the flop, I'm not putting any more money in the pot. If I get 4 cards to a flush, I'm more than willing to gamble with 2 overs and a flush draw, so I'd check the flop, and push AI over-the-top if he bets. If I hit TPTK, I'd play defense (check and call down normal sized bets) to try to guard against AA KK, let AQ/KQ/AJ think its hand is good, and possibly induce some kind of desperation/frustration/value bet pot buy attempt with a high pocket (under) pair. And if he's running a bluff on me, I don't want to take the lead away from him.
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magicmntn
Old 01-05-2005, 04:42 AM     Post subject: look at his chip stack #12 (permalink)  

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magicmntn
No one seems to have mentioned the size of his chip stack. $3 tells me he is trying to get all in with a decent hand, not that he has AA or KK. Call the $3, and if you catch any part of the flop you are all in. At worst, you wind up down $9. At best you catch someone anxious to double up and without the cards to do so.
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