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How bad is this backdoor draw?

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DaHorror

09-25-2006, 10:21 PM Post subject: How bad is this backdoor draw?

#1 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 616

Is this a spot where folks mostly fold the flop to the minreraise?
Just figured I'd hunt the turn - if I didn't improve at all I'm check-folding...I probably should have led the turn for something as if I still had some overpair...might have made more overall. Meaning I could have led for $10 on the turn and see what happens...but in that case he probably just calls the turn and folds the river...and I don't get to gauge is hand strength at all - the turn is an obvious call and I went for the river checkraise as it looks just as much like I missed AK/AQ as anything else.
Results posted because the play is more the question and the board makes the results obvious.

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No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $10.05
UTG+1: $75.55
MP1: $35.30
MP2: $52.05
MP3: $49.50
_TheHorror_: $48
Button: $60
SB: $48.75
BB: $87.80

Pre-flop: (9 players) _TheHorror_ is CO with A

5 folds, _TheHorror_ raises to $2, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: 6

($4.75, 2 players)
_TheHorror_ bets $3, Button raises to $6, _TheHorror_ calls.

Turn: 7

($16.75, 2 players)
_TheHorror_ checks, Button bets $4, _TheHorror_ calls.

River: 2

($24.75, 2 players)
_TheHorror_ checks, Button bets $5, _TheHorror_ raises to $15, Button calls.

Results:
Final pot: $54.75
_TheHorror_ shows AS 9S
Button shows JS AH

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freechus9

09-25-2006, 10:47 PM

#2 (permalink)

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I think it's fine because if you spike an A you probably will have a winning hand as well.

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Halv

09-25-2006, 11:26 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by freechus9

I think it's fine because if you spike an A you might have a winning hand as well.

Weak tight me just folds the flop to his minraise, being oop against an unknown with A high and a backdoor draw just doesn't do it for me.

As played I think I lead the river. No one believes runner-runner flushes, and with the small bet on the turn he's either got
a) nothing and won't call a raise but might bluff at it if we check
b) a half decent hand, in which case he's a donk and will not fold it if we bet, but he might check behind if we dont
c) a strong hand that he can't lay down after this action and will probably raise us so we can get all in (ie a set or a straight).

I think we gain too little by inducing a three-street bluff in a) compared to the value we lose in b) or c) to make the c/r the best play.

Edit; and as played I think we can c/r a bit bigger because our line just looks so weird that he's likely to look us up.

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givememyleg

09-26-2006, 01:02 AM

#4 (permalink)

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I probably fold the flop too, unless I think he is capable of making a play on me. I think the rest was played fine except c/r more on the river.

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DaHorror

09-26-2006, 03:19 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Posts: 616

Yea so like I catch the semi-hidden backdoor draw and I really don't overplay it enough.
That's what I figured.

River check-raise is pretty risky since his hand didn't look that strong, and then you're right I didn't raise enough!
Silly. If he's calling $15 he woulda called $20 anyway...bleh.

Thx!

swiggidy

09-26-2006, 03:26 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHorror

River check-raise is pretty risky since his hand didn't look that strong, and then you're right I didn't raise enough!
Silly. If he's calling $15 he woulda called $20 anyway...bleh.

I'm just getting started at this ring thing, but I make the river $25-30. Villain doesn't have to call much for it to be more eV. From experience I can't say if that's true.

I would probably call the flop min-raise because I fucking hate min-raises and love trying to stack someone for trying it.

TerryToma

09-26-2006, 05:30 AM

#7 (permalink)

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i like to push when i hit my back door draw, opponents always think.. nooo.. he couldnt have a flush, they came on the tunr/river!

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BobbySalami

09-26-2006, 05:48 AM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryToma

i like to push when i hit my back door draw, opponents always think.. nooo.. he couldnt have a flush, they came on the tunr/river!

I was thinking the same thing here....I like a push, He either has nothing and will fold no matter what, or he has a bit of something and feels that your bluffing him out of his seat and wants to look you up. Or the safe route would be reraise to $30.

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DaHorror

09-26-2006, 04:15 PM

#9 (permalink)

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I tend to agree with open pushing the river...looks like a bluff and there's a good nuff chance that he would call it.
I was just kinda 'goofin' with this hand and didn't expect to actually hit lol so I played it like shit when I did...woops!

Thx for the comments all.

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How bad is this backdoor draw?

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