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Horrible play. Please berate me.

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AvatarKava

07-08-2004, 07:40 PM Post subject: Horrible play. Please berate me.

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 464

Way too many hands out there to beat me, yet I make a typical PP move and call the turn.

What's the best way to play this?

***** Hand History for Game 735277723 *****
Table Table 14050 (6 max) (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: AvatarKava ( $24)
Seat 2: GAUROS ( $55.90)
Seat 3: suxatcardz ( $52.75)
Seat 5: xxprincess18 ( $46.15)
Seat 6: Sponger15 ( $23)
suxatcardz posts small blind (0.25)
xxprincess18 posts big blind (0.50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to AvatarKava [ Qs, Jc ]
Sponger15 calls (0.50)
AvatarKava raises (1.50) to 1.50
GAUROS calls (1.50)
suxatcardz calls (1.25)
xxprincess18 folds.
Sponger15 calls (1)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Qc, Jh, Ts ]
suxatcardz checks.
Sponger15 checks.
AvatarKava bets (6)
GAUROS calls (6)
suxatcardz folds.
Sponger15 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8d ]
AvatarKava checks.
GAUROS bets (15)
AvatarKava calls (15)
** Dealing River ** : [ 8s ]
AvatarKava bets (1.50)
AvatarKava is all-In.
suxatcardz: laterz
GAUROS calls (1.50)
Creating Main Pot with $49.50 with AvatarKava
** Summary **
Main Pot: $49.50 | | Rake: $2
Board: [ Qc Jh Ts 8d 8s ]
AvatarKava balance $0, lost $24 [ Qs Jc ] [ two pairs, queens and jacks -- Qs,Qc,Jc,Jh,Ts ]
GAUROS balance $81.40, bet $24, collected $49.50, net +$25.50 [ As Ah ] [ two pairs, aces and eights -- As,Ah,Qc,8d,8s ]
suxatcardz balance $51.25, lost $1.50 (folded)
xxprincess18 balance $45.65, lost $0.50 (folded)
Sponger15 balance $25, lost $1.50 (folded)

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Humphrind

07-08-2004, 07:53 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Kansas City

Posts: 1,887

That was terrible, awful, horrible. Why are you playing poker? There are charities that would rather have your money.

There, that should be enough berating. Now seriously.

Doyle Brunson said in Super System, "I have seen more money lost with bottom 2 pair on the flop than any other hand."

This is exactly that situation. I probably would have done the exact same thing as you. Scared of the straight, or someone drawing for the straight. But still happy with your 2 pair.

Last night I was delt QQ. After a pretty big PFR I saw AK6 on the flop. I folded to a semi-big bet (about 1/2 - 3/4 the pot). The turn was a Q. I simply chickened out with the overs on the board and lost some cash.

You have to ask yourself, would you rather lose a big pot sometimes with good play or a small pot everytime with scared play? I think the big pots will make up for itself.

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

Toasty

07-08-2004, 08:06 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: England UK

Posts: 1,522

You never know theres the tiny chance you induced a bluff, but most of the time its an easy fold

Pick yourself up dude and get out there and take some $$ of those fish!!!

Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .

Fnord

07-08-2004, 08:10 PM

#4 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

If you're going to call the turn anyway, push all-in there. Too bad the Aces had position on you, otherwise it would have set-up more options.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

koolmoe

07-08-2004, 08:14 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Drowning in prosperity

Posts: 1,279

Only one question - If you're gonna call 15 on the turn, why check?

Push instead, and you get folding equity.

AvatarKava

07-08-2004, 09:27 PM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 464

Quote:

Originally Posted by koolmoe

Only one question - If you're gonna call 15 on the turn, why check?

Push instead, and you get folding equity.

Agreed. That was exactly my point as to what made it a horrible play - by showing any kind of weakness on the turn, I let him hit on his hand.

I think I was still destined to lose this one, but against a better player the push on the turn would have helped.

Fnord

07-08-2004, 10:23 PM

#7 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by AvatarKava

I think I was still destined to lose this one, but against a better player the push on the turn would have helped.

LMAO. Short handed table and he had Aces w/ a gutshot draw to the nuts.

You got your money in with the best of it. Don't beat yourself up too much on this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

AvatarKava

07-08-2004, 10:38 PM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 464

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by AvatarKava

I think I was still destined to lose this one, but against a better player the push on the turn would have helped.

LMAO. Short handed table and he had Aces w/ a gutshot draw to the nuts.

You got your money in with the best of it. Don't beat yourself up too much on this one.

LOL - probably misworded that. What I meant is that I think he was going to call me down regardless of whether I moved in on the turn like I should have, so perhaps in this particular instance my play didn't matter all that much.

allLiving

07-08-2004, 11:37 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 799

It quite possibly could have ended up the exact same way no matter how you played it. Some players will hold onto pocket aces regardless of what the board is.

PocketFives - allLiving
Pokerstars - [595-ESCAPE]

AvatarKava

07-09-2004, 12:05 AM

#10 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 464

Another reason not to play crappy UTG hands..

***** Hand History for Game 735911523 *****
0/0 TexasHTGameTable (NL) - Thu Jul 08 19:59:14 EDT 2004
Table Table 14176 (6 max) (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: tonyam03 ( $18.45)
Seat 2: jmgfosho ( $65)
Seat 3: AvatarKava ( $38.60)
Seat 4: jrock100575 ( $151.50)
Seat 5: bigsam99 ( $16.55)
Seat 6: seaslammer ( $9.50)
tonyam03 posts small blind (0.50)
jmgfosho posts big blind (1)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to AvatarKava [ Ad, 2d ]
AvatarKava calls (1)
jrock100575 calls (1)
bigsam99 calls (1)
seaslammer folds.
tonyam03 calls (0.50)
jmgfosho checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Jd, 3d, 8c ]
tonyam03 checks.
jmgfosho checks.
AvatarKava checks.
jrock100575 folds.
bigsam99 checks.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4d ]
tonyam03 bets (3)
jmgfosho folds.
AvatarKava calls (3)
bigsam99 calls (3)
** Dealing River ** : [ 4s ]
tonyam03 checks.
AvatarKava bets (7)
bigsam99 raises (12.55) to 12.55
bigsam99 is all-In.
tonyam03 folds.
AvatarKava calls (5.55)
Creating Main Pot with $37.15 with bigsam99
** Summary **
Main Pot: $37.15 | | Rake: $1.95
Board: [ Jd 3d 8c 4d 4s ]
tonyam03 balance $14.45, lost $4 (folded)
jmgfosho balance $64, lost $1 (folded)
AvatarKava balance $22.05, lost $16.55 [ Ad 2d ] [ a flush, ace high -- Ad,Jd,4d,3d,2d ]
jrock100575 balance $150.50, lost $1 (folded)
bigsam99 balance $37.15, bet $16.55, collected $37.15, net +$20.60 [ 4c 3c ] [ a full house, Fours full of threes -- 4c,4d,4s,3c,3d ]
seaslammer balance $50, didn't bet (folded)

fishstick

07-09-2004, 12:48 AM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: Carlsbad, CA

Posts: 1,405

Quote:

Originally Posted by AvatarKava

Another reason not to play crappy UTG hands..

as to whether to play Ax suited from UTG, that's up to you as a player.

otherwise, this is just a case of him catching 1 of 4 cards that could beat you on the river.

the only thing i'd do differently - i would have done a good size reraise on the turn (at least $10). who knows, that might have been enough to fold bigsam. of course, with the nut flush - that's one hand you can generally slow play safely, and who's really thinking about a boat when the board hasn't paired yet.

yeah, i've had days like that.

AvatarKava

07-09-2004, 01:02 AM

#12 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 464

On tilt with the raise, but look at the hand I'm called with. I give up.

***** Hand History for Game 736070902 *****
0/0 TexasHTGameTable (NL) - Thu Jul 08 20:58:19 EDT 2004
Table Table 14431 (6 max) (Real Money) -- Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: EvilEvilDave ( $161.75)
Seat 2: qwerty600 ( $123.05)
Seat 3: ChestHairDAV ( $114.35)
Seat 4: NellieS85 ( $50.50)
Seat 5: sfunky ( $127.15)
Seat 6: AvatarKava ( $9.10)
qwerty600 posts small blind (1)
ChestHairDAV posts big blind (2)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to AvatarKava [ Kc, Qs ]
sfunky folds.
AvatarKava raises (9.10) to 9.10
AvatarKava is all-In.
EvilEvilDave folds.
qwerty600 folds.
ChestHairDAV calls (7.10)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ac, 4c, Ah ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4s ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 6s ]
Creating Main Pot with $19.20 with AvatarKava
** Summary **
Main Pot: $19.20 | | Rake: $0
Board: [ Ac 4c Ah 4s 6s ]
EvilEvilDave balance $161.75, didn't bet (folded)
qwerty600 balance $122.05, lost $1 (folded)
ChestHairDAV balance $124.45, bet $9.10, collected $19.20, net +$10.10 [ 6c 5c ] [ two pairs, aces and sixes -- Ac,Ah,6c,6s,5c ]
NellieS85 balance $50.50, sits out
sfunky balance $127.15, didn't bet (folded)
AvatarKava balance $0, lost $9.10 [ Kc Qs ] [ two pairs, aces and fours -- Ac,Ah,Kc,4c,4s ]

AvatarKava

07-09-2004, 01:24 AM

#13 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 464

I just can't bring myself to keep playing this game online when the fish seem to be constantly rewarded.

When I make big bets early and I'm called while I have the best of it, I get drawn out on. If I don't make a big bet, I usually win but take down a small pot (which usually isn't even enough to outpace the blinds).

If this happened to me one night a week and I pulled some profit the other six, I could live with it. But it has been more like 5 bad days for every good day since I started playing, with the exception of the brief period of time I tried playing like a fish and had consistent profit...

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