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HELP WITH SCARE CARDS ON TURN & RIVER

  
 
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BILLABONG
Old 12-05-2004, 12:30 AM     Post subject: HELP WITH SCARE CARDS ON TURN & RIVER #1 (permalink)  
3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 102
BILLABONG
PokerStars Game #923699184: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2004/12/04 - 18:04:58 (ET)
Table 'Norma' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: never tie ($9.65 in chips)
Seat 2: JBlazze ($21 in chips)
Seat 3: Miclar_DK ($15.60 in chips)
Seat 4: 20nCrAzY ($25.55 in chips)
Seat 5: trafficcop ($10 in chips)
Seat 6: bigjmk ($7 in chips)
Seat 7: TheClone ($23.75 in chips)
Seat 8: fastpitch4me ($9.05 in chips)
Seat 9: ogtsupa ($11.70 in chips)
TheClone: posts small blind $0.10
fastpitch4me: posts big blind $0.25
20nCrAzY: posts small & big blinds $0.35
trafficcop: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to 20nCrAzY [Qd Qc]
ogtsupa: folds
ogtsupa leaves the table
never tie: folds
JBlazze: folds
Miclar_DK: folds
20nCrAzY: raises $0.75 to $1
trafficcop: calls $0.75
bigjmk: calls $1
TheClone: folds
fastpitch4me: calls $0.75
*** FLOP *** [6s Th 9h]
fastpitch4me: checks
20nCrAzY: bets $3
JohnnyCrash joins the table at seat #9
trafficcop: calls $3
bigjmk: folds
fastpitch4me: calls $3
*** TURN *** [6s Th 9h] [As]
fastpitch4me: checks
20nCrAzY: bets $6
trafficcop: folds
fastpitch4me: calls $5.05 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [6s Th 9h As] [7s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
fastpitch4me: shows [Ac Tc] (two pair, Aces and Tens)
20nCrAzY: mucks hand
fastpitch4me collected $22.20 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $23.30 | Rake $1.10
Board [6s Th 9h As 7s]
Seat 1: never tie folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: JBlazze folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Miclar_DK folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: 20nCrAzY mucked [Qd Qc]
Seat 5: trafficcop folded on the Turn
Seat 6: bigjmk (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: TheClone (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: fastpitch4me (big blind) showed [Ac Tc] and won ($22.20) with two pair, Aces and Tens
Seat 9: ogtsupa folded before Flop (didn't bet)

*********** # 14 **************
PokerStars Game #923669951: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2004/12/04 - 17:56:08 (ET)
Table 'Aitne' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Merrily Joy ($24.95 in chips)
Seat 2: JACKSINHOLE ($18.40 in chips)
Seat 3: 20nCrAzY ($23.65 in chips)
Seat 4: labs ($16.85 in chips)
Seat 5: qeford ($11.80 in chips)
Seat 7: jthom ($25.75 in chips)
Seat 8: duece_wild ($11.95 in chips)
Seat 9: bigtimeitpro ($10.15 in chips)
Merrily Joy: posts small blind $0.10
JACKSINHOLE: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to 20nCrAzY [6s 9h]
20nCrAzY: folds
labs: folds
20nCrAzY is sitting out
qeford: raises $0.25 to $0.50
jthom: folds
duece_wild: calls $0.50
bigtimeitpro: folds
Merrily Joy: folds
JACKSINHOLE: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qd Jh Kh]
qeford: bets $1
duece_wild: calls $1
*** TURN *** [Qd Jh Kh] [7c]
JACKSINHOLE leaves the table
qeford: bets $1.50
duece_wild: calls $1.50
*** RIVER *** [Qd Jh Kh 7c] [Qc]
qeford: checks
duece_wild: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
qeford: shows [9d 9s] (two pair, Queens and Nines)
duece_wild: shows [Jc Ah] (two pair, Queens and Jacks)
duece_wild collected $6.05 from pot


Should I had givin up my hand once the ace came? Only thing is, if I give it up im sure to be bought out of the pot buy a player.

Also, What do I do in nl ring games when a scare card comes off on the turn or river? For example I have AK, I raise 4xbb, with two callers, one behind me and one of front of me. Flop comes Kh,2s,Th. Its checked to me and I bet roughly 75% of pot. The player after me calls and the player before me folds. With the turn being a 7h and action being on me...Do I give this hand up or do I bet once again 75% of pot? If I check he can buy the pot. However if I bet I could be betting into a flush...What do I do?!
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a500lbgorilla
Old 12-05-2004, 02:18 AM #2 (permalink)  
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The first hand is fine.

The second hand was posted on accident.

The hand you spoke about is a little tricky. Does this player always play his draws? Is he loose? What are you reads?

You have to bet 2/3rds the pot on the turn and see how he reacts. He'll probably let it go unless he has a strong king or the flush. I can't really give you an answer without more information on the player like (Does he call with suited cards? Do he chase every draw? Does he like to play KJ or KT?)

Assuming you just sat down and have no reads, bet the turn, if he only calls. I'll bet the river again, fold to a raise. He'd need the flush to raise on the river but he might also call you down with a beaten king or the broadway straight draw.

-'rilla

Lemme put it this way: What you can't do is check. You give up the hand with no information, basically submitting to the scare card.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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TDM100
Old 12-06-2004, 05:14 AM     Post subject: Well LQQkie what I found here! #3 (permalink)  

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 40
TDM100
Quote:
PokerStars Game #923699184
With full disclosure, in the heat of this battle, I can’t say with full confidence, that I too would NOT have had put fastpitch ALL IN, either on the turn or the river.
With my style of play, I tend to think I would have shown restraint on the turn.
And I hope to verify that with my analysis.
Also in full disclosure I Don’t understand all the blinds that were involved in this game.
There were four blinds for this game? What are they penalty blinds?
A new version of the Game I am not aware of?
With 4 blinds, who da hell is the button?

For the observer, position wasn’t easy to determine here.
For me, recognition of “Table Position” is quintessential to my style of play.
That and chip stacks.
More so than all those odds you people love to spout!
Don’t get me wrong, odds have their place, it’s just not the first tool I reach for.

I’ll accept that ogtsupa was first to act and fastpitch4me was last pre-Flop.
But who the hell knows! LOL
<Boy this Norma Table is really wild HUH! lol>
Norma is advertised as Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25)
So holding QQ mid position, chip leader, and four blinds in here, lol, I’m going harder than 3Xadvertised blinds here, $1.50 to $2 plus my $.35 blind.
I want to ensure that the OTHERS with blinds, make a commitment.

20nCrAzY didn’t go that high so I assume he wanted callers and slow-play.
Fair enough lets proceed.
My eye is on Seat 7: TheClone ($23.75 in chips), he can do me some damage here.
I am hoping like heck he don’t call for a buck!
If he doesn’t bet I can only lose around ten bucks, max!
Whew, he didn’t bet!
My Queens are now worth five bucks aint they?
Com’on fastpitch4me raise!
Dang he just called.
<We don’t know that fastpitch is holding Ac Tc right now and I didn’t when I initially read through the post >

WOW four to see the flop!
That aint good.
I am the only one who announced to the table that I might have something.
And 3 others agreed they possibly do too, but weren’t proud of it.
I got all this obvious info for a lousy buck!

*** FLOP *** [6s Th 9h]
Figures!
My Q’s are clubs and diamonds!
Ok fastpitch, what you got there bud?
He checked!
(I’m doin $5 here. Seriously contemplating AI, but would have opted for the $5)
Again I am doing so in order to make others commit to this pot.
I am risking that the others will think I am trying to steal this pot, but in actuality trying to prevent them from sucking it away.
I’m feeling I slip’d for allowing them to see this flop for essentially $.75, I am going to try to recover from that right now.
Two pair has got me beat!
For example, I’m not afraid of playin 9Td for $.75 above my blind preflop.
Depending on the table, I’ll play 78 late position at that amount!
What I am saying, for a buck, anything could be playing here.
I got to make these short stacks think if they aint got it, is it worth it.
They will soon tell me if they got it or not!
<In the real world $3 bucks was chosen to be the bet here instead.>

S.O.B!
2 out of 3 callers, not what I wanted!
Com on Q! Oops. If it does pop plz don’t be holding JK, J8!
And GAWD DON’T be Q hearts!
Oh this hand is getting ugly!

*** [6s Th 9h] [As]
You couldn’t have been a three of clubs HUH?!
Great!
fastpitch4me: checks
Well that’s good news, and he has done that twice.
Chasing, slow-play, nuthin?
Dang it, for $1+$3= $4 A6h could be here.
Ace heart anything!
Well this sucks!
These two morons could be chasing flush and straights.
One of ‘em is.
fastpitch4me refuses to tell us what he has and keeps finding himself in late position.
I’m the only one knockin players out here, and now I am chasin.
Even if I hit one of my Q’s on the river that could help a flush or straight here.
Beginning of this mess I said five bucks!
I would have to think somebody with two pair would have to defend against the flush here.
One pair or chasin flushes & straights you aint pushin the issue!
they are both short stacks, I have one pair.
as soon as I check, it’s a sign of weakness or a trap.
At least I hope they read it as a trap considering I was the aggressor ( on the Ace).

If I check, I am now in last position with a pair if trafficcop bets.
Mid position again if he checks but then we will all know that fifth card.
I’m Checking.
CHECK!

That’s it, I’m checking to gain last position, or second to act after all the cards are up.
If trafficcop bets anything, we can assume fastpitch4me would have went AI.
I’m folding.
If fastpitch4me didn’t AI, I’m calling @ $2 or less.
Just to hang to the river!
That’s all I’m putting in this pot.
Check or fold river!

There’s NO reason NOT to assume the following is being played here on
.25 + .75=$1.00, essentially 75 cents!
Then $3:
Slow-play
KK JJ lethal AA TT 99
Limped in AK AQ AJ AT A9 for the gambler A6 or AX
Worse if they are suited Hearts &/or now Spades they aint goin anywhere!
For the chaser QJ if suited hearts he certainly aint goin anywhere
For the Guy who got lucky on the $.75 essentially buy in
78 9T 66 all of which got me beat
the only one I feel I can scare away right now is maybe the unsuited str8 chaser and KTo
Am I lucky enough that both of ‘em are in this situation?
Oddly enough, If any of my Queens pop that can only prove to screw me!
I’m not gonna get cocky on the river if it does.
KT spades got me!
Best I can hope is all of us check to the end, but I seriously doubt that’s how its gonna end on the river.

Qd Qc vs. Ac Tc
If I were actually betting it would have been $2 preflop.
TheClone ($23.75 in chips) Folds
Let’s assume fastpitch4me Calls with Ac Tc.
The FLOP [6s Th 9h]
I got to assume fastpitch4me checks to me again, like he did previously
WHAM I push him ALL in!
Does fastpitch4me ($7.80 in chips) call?


Additional Question answered for BILLABONG:
Quote
Also, What do I do in nl ring games when a scare card comes off on the turn or river? For example I have AK,
End Quote

Playing at this same Norma Table
You’re only in $3.25
Instinctively I would check.
He doesn’t know you got it either.
& you only got a pair.
You wanna stab, then put $2 more in.
Wait for the reaction.

My question is, why’d ya bet the $2.25 in the first place you already in a potential Flush draw situation!
The guy calls what you think is a high preflop.
and follows your $2.25 bet
He aint got nuthin? he sees the flush commin too!
How you know he aint got ya beat already absent the flush?
AA KT K2 Trip2 TripT
You betting into this too man!
You gonna have to worry about “AFTER” the River yet.
Go ahead
Put him in
lol

Now after analyzing only two hands of yours, I’m sitting at your table, you got a betting rhythm. I just witnessed you throw caution to the wind betting on one pair!
Each TIME! You just snapping chips in there.
Doesn’t matter with you, heads up or not!
You have no intention of contemplating what’s there, and what could be there.
THAT MEANS YOU’RE HESITATING ON THE TURN!
When it finally dawns on ya.

At first I was stumped, fastpitch4me didn’t bet those two pair?
I sure enough would.
In that situation, why’d he do that?
Then call an all in from the aggressive chip leader!?
I am only slow-playin if,,,,well I be damn!
HE SAW IT TOO!
I’d change that style if I was you, lol
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