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Help with KQo

  
 
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TerryToma
Old 08-16-2006, 05:35 AM     Post subject: Help with KQo #1 (permalink)  
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I have been having problems with KQo today, as always. Its been a chronic loser of mine for as long as I remember. Today was no exception! Here are a few of the hands. My general plan with KQo is to raise any position pre-flop if I'm the first in. I will fold KQo to a PFR if player is tight preflop. Then I c-bet about 2/3rds of the time.

Hand 1).I had mp3 tagged as a calling station, I c/c turn hoping for a flush.

Poker Room skin
Pot Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) TerryToma is UTG+1 with Q K
UTG folds, TerryToma raises to $1, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 4 folds.

Flop: 3 4 7 ($2.5, 2 players)
TerryToma checks, MP3 bets $1, TerryToma calls.

Turn: A ($4.5, 2 players)
TerryToma checks, MP3 bets $2, TerryToma calls.

River: 5 ($8.5, 2 players)
TerryToma checks, MP3 bets $8.5, TerryToma folds.
Uncalled bets: $8.5 returned to MP3.

Results:
Final pot: $8.5

Hand 2). Opponent is an unknown, full stacks. He donk bets flop/calls. So I put him on a draw. However I check turn for some reason b/c I dont feel my hand has much showdown value/can't stand any more heat.


Poker Room skin
Pot Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) TerryToma is UTG+1 with Q K
UTG folds, TerryToma raises to $1, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: J 3 2 ($3.25, 3 players)
BB bets $0.3, TerryToma raises to $1.5, MP3 calls, BB folds.

Turn: 8 ($6.55, 2 players)
TerryToma checks, MP3 bets $5, TerryToma folds.
Uncalled bets: $5 returned to MP3.

Results:
Final pot: $6.55


Hand 3). No reads, just doing my standard thing with KQo. I dont like to call pot-sized bets with MPGK, no draw. Opinions appreciated.

Poker Room skin
Pot Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.25
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $28.95
UTG+1: $8.30
UTG+2: $25.00
MP1: $41.75
TerryToma: $52.85
MP3: $24.75
CO: $24.25
Button: $21.70
SB: $32.00
BB: $55.40

Pre-flop: (10 players) TerryToma is MP2 with K Q
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, TerryToma raises to $1.25, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: A 4 Q ($5.5, 4 players)
UTG+1 bets $5.5, TerryToma folds, 2 folds.
Uncalled bets: $5.5 returned to UTG+1.

Results:
Final pot: $5.5
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Turska
Old 08-16-2006, 05:45 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Well, I only limp in with KQ off. If i hit pair at the flop
I pot it. Fold to significant action. I dont think QK off
is a raising hand (button,CO excluded).

I like to play QK (preferably suited) at multiway pots
when I hit 2 pr or better.
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takesix
Old 08-16-2006, 05:48 AM     Post subject: Re: Help with KQo #3 (permalink)  
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Hand 1: Why are you playing KQo? Pair value? Trying to make a straight? Hoping for a weird 2 pair? You miss and don't cbet, be prepared to fold to any sort of aggression. Did you think your K high was good on the flop? If not, then why call? Call the turn on a draw when you may be drawing dead? Yuck.

Hand 2: If you're gonna raise that flop, raise it to $3. Otherwise you're giving spades+overs all sorts of reasons to call that. Weaksauce raise + check on the turn = scared lil' boy, I bet with any 2 cards there. Again though, unless you think your K high is good, why even bother? With one behind you, even hitting a K or Q can be disasterous for you (if they have AQ or AK).

Hand 3: Standard.
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TerryToma
Old 08-16-2006, 05:58 AM     Post subject: Re: Help with KQo #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takesix
Hand 1: Why are you playing KQo? Pair value? Trying to make a straight? Hoping for a weird 2 pair? You miss and don't cbet, be prepared to fold to any sort of aggression. Did you think your K high was good on the flop? If not, then why call? Call the turn on a draw when you may be drawing dead? Yuck.
Not sure what I was thinking on the flop, perhaps I thought if I spike a K/Q on the turn I would be good. Plus I have heard that c-betting into a calling station is a bad idea, and I had him pegged as a calling station. Is a c-bet still +ev in this situation?

As far as the turn goes I called thinking my Q of hearts would get me the best flush. I def didnt think I was drawing dead.

Perhaps I should think of KQo more like KJo than AQo? Its easily dominated, and has little showdown value. Goes in the muck in EP?
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zook
Old 08-16-2006, 06:13 AM     Post subject: Re: Help with KQo #5 (permalink)  
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1. Fold pre-flop.

2. Fold pre-flop.

3. Good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryToma
Perhaps I should think of KQo more like KJo than AQo? Its easily dominated, and has little showdown value. Goes in the muck in EP?
Yes and yes. I don't open-raise with KQo until LP usually. Sometimes in MP with weak/tight players behind me.
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Renton
Old 08-16-2006, 06:37 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 Preflop raise with it always, even in early position, but pitch it UTG unless its suited. Just limp along or check if on the blinds.

On the flop represent any A, K, or Q. Play it fairly similarly to how you would play AK.
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TerryToma
Old 08-16-2006, 06:42 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
Preflop raise with it always, even in early position, but pitch it UTG unless its suited. Just limp along or check if on the blinds.

On the flop represent any A, K, or Q. Play it fairly similarly to how you would play AK.
Yeah I didnt think I was crazy. I was following your pf guide. Do you think repping A/K/Q is +ev at these low stakes vs calling stations?? Is this play at too high level of thinking for most players at .25/.25 pot limit or 25NL?

By the way what do your KQo stats look like up at your level? Is it just a hand you have to take a hit on for your image, or does it become +ev over the long run?
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fjuanl
Old 08-16-2006, 08:45 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 1. even against calling stations continuation bets are probably +ev on this flop. its already been pointed out that calling the flop is pointless. you should either continuation bet, check/raise, or check/fold.

2. make your raise to at least $3 here. Raising to 1.50 isnt getting much information or getting draws to fold

3. standard. utg+1 makes a really strong lead betting into 3 players after a prf.
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Miffed22001
Old 08-16-2006, 10:23 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zook
1. Fold pre-flop.

2. Fold pre-flop.

3. Good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryToma
Perhaps I should think of KQo more like KJo than AQo? Its easily dominated, and has little showdown value. Goes in the muck in EP?
Yes and yes. I don't open-raise with KQo until LP usually. Sometimes in MP with weak/tight players behind me.
incredibly weak, learn to play post-flop. Your opponent is rarely going to have AQ when you have KQ. Calling a raise with KQo is the mistake not raising with it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turska
Well, I only limp in with KQ off. If i hit pair at the flop
I pot it. Fold to significant action. I dont think QK off
is a raising hand (button,CO excluded).

I like to play QK (preferably suited) at multiway pots
when I hit 2 pr or better.
weak.
Youre opponents suck at these stakes (particularly at a pokerroom skin) a whole lot more than you do, even if you raise KQo in ep. Certainly against decent players KQo is a muck in ep perhaps a limp behind limpers.
Mucking KQo or limping with it is pretty much the same as saying 'i wont raise AJo in ep' because they play the same and have the sme problems preflop.
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Khabbi
Old 08-16-2006, 01:13 PM #10 (permalink)  
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IMO, you are overplaying KQ out of position.

EP: I limp with KQ. I play it for top pair and cheap showdown or 2-pair or straight. Never c-bet.

MP: I'll open limp/raise (50/50) depending on the table this may vary. I usually won't call an EP raise.

LP: I'll open raise and call raises from MP. I can play a little harder on top pair than in MP.
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Turska
Old 08-17-2006, 05:52 AM     Post subject: Miffed #11 (permalink)  
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Maybe my line is weak with KQ off but it is very profitable. I play
25 NL at 14 BB/100. I am not after small pots which I can steal
with marginal hands. I am after big pots which I win with rock
solid hands. And I agree about your comment about AJ off

I raise it only late pos because its basically junk hand.

I have hard time to make my AA,KK,QQ,AK hold up at 25NL
against crazy calling stations. I dont even consider playing
AJ,KQ offs very far _if_ I face a lot of aggression.
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TerryToma
Old 08-17-2006, 06:12 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Welp today was opposite day. I won all 5 of my KQo hands, after losing 8/9 yesterday. I c-bet all flops (none were coordinated). Repping either an overpair, or A,Q,K. Once I reraised someone's donk bet on AKx flop.

Probably a lot to do with dumb-luck, but much thanks to you all. BTW, I followed renton/miffed's advice.

FWIW, the tables were full of much better players today, yesterday they were all awful. So perhaps KQo is best play aggro vs good avg/standard 25nlers. Its best played a bit more passively PF vs loose tables?
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