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LeFou
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11-11-2005, 09:24 PM
Post subject: Harman versus that one guy
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Finally torrented some Main Event coverage and watched that awful hand.
After he catches that rigged one-outer, JH says "I KNEW you had that hand!" and Mrs. LeFou made a good point:
"Why put him all-in then?"
I don't remember the stacks/pot exactly, but I think she put 3K into a 4K pot? Probably not even Harman can get away from the nut boat, but if she suspected that exact hand, who knows?
After losing, she had enough chips to take a break and get blinded a bit ... also opp's play made sense for TT (quads) + some acting on the turn.
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dalecooper
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11-11-2005, 09:32 PM
Post subject: Re: Harman versus that one guy
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#2 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LeFou
"Why put him all-in then?"
I don't remember the stacks/pot exactly, but I think she put 3K into a 4K pot? Probably not even Harman can get away from the nut boat, but if she suspected that exact hand, who knows?
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Well...
1. The pot was a bit different than you remember. I know his turn bet was 1000 or 1500, and she raised to 3000 or 3500. The rest of his chips had to have been less than half the pot. So any bet by him on the end was going to give her remarkable pot odds for queens full.
2. Even though she "knew" (which of course means "suspected") his hand, I imagine she's thinking like this: there's no way I can fold this, especially for the pot odds I'm getting, so I may as well make the first move and hope he calls with a worse hand than what I am very afraid he has. If he has a worse hand than that and I check & he checks behind, I made a mistake. If he has what I think he'll go all in anyway, and because of pot odds and the strength of my hand, I can't possibly lay it down.
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LeFou
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11-12-2005, 12:46 AM
Post subject: Re: Harman versus that one guy
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#3 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dalecooper
If he has a worse hand than that and I check & he checks behind, I made a mistake. If he has what I think he'll go all in anyway, and because of pot odds and the strength of my hand, I can't possibly lay it down.
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All true, but the mistake made is just a missed bet, not near-ruin.
I'm not saying I could lay down the boat, but if I were alert enough to be watching for the SF, I could possibly check the river. Esp. considering the quad possibility.
And I'm not trying to show that I can find a "mistake" in JH's play. It's basically a theoretical question about holding the near-nuts with heavy action like that.
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joshuadzl
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 287
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Someone upload the portion of that clip somewhere please. I still haven't seen it and I've had problems trying to find the torrents online.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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If Harman doesn't double up Zeidman there, that's a very horrible play on her part.
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sejje
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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Come on, she didn't "know." This is like those threads about folding the big full or middle set on a safe flop. Pay off and move on.
One of the poker books I read a little bit of talked about a time Brunson folded Aces full on an A422 board. Fours full called, and bad beat quad deuces with a four on the river. Brunson supposedly knew that only a set could smoothcall his flop bet, so one of the guys had made quads.
I say pay it off. Aces full? He's supposed to have some kind of hugely aggressive image, and he folds aces full. Sounds really weak-tight to me. 
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sejje
I say pay it off. Aces full? He's supposed to have some kind of hugely aggressive image, and he folds aces full. Sounds really weak-tight to me. |
Or maybe the greatest read ever
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Laeelin
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,137
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What I didnt like was the way the he acted after her bet on the river...
Basically acting like she had won.
Acting is for in the hand, not after they are all in!!
Very low class to let someone think they had you beat after the money is all in like that.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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I only watched it once I believe, but I think JH really overreacted on that hand. If I was Zeidman, I probably wouldn't have said anything, being confident I hit a miracle one-outer on the river.. but all he said was something like, "I hope I win this one." JH flips out, CZ APOLOGIZES, and JH continues to go on. Imagine what people would say if that exact same situation happened, but put Hellmuth in place of Harmen. Yeah..
edit: that would be a miracle 2 outer from his perspective..
Also, I want to make it clear that I'm not attacking JH in this situation.. I would have been very upset in that situation too, but moreso about the hand which was completely out their control then a stupid little comment at the end. I still think she overreacted though, especially after he apologized.
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Laeelin
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,137
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Quote:
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but all he said was something like, "I hope I win this one."
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I rember him drawing it out a lot more than that (taking his time and etc..., but I only saw it once and might be wrong...
Stupid of me to not mention that, he did apologize, and thats important.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Um, she had top boat and was only losing to quads or a straight flush.
You put someone all-in with top boat because there are tons of worse hands that will call you, and you'll almost never get called by a better hand. Obviously she didn't "know" he had a straight flush, she suspected he may've had one.
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badandy519
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: mckinney, tx
Posts: 223
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I don't remember exactly how the hand played out either, but I do remember that he should have been able to figure out from the way the betting went that his flopped straight PROBABLY wasn't any good once the board paired and he was drawing to 2 outs at best (and she had the Qd) so it was still horribly played on his part. And I also agree that his "acting" on the river wasn't very classy either.
I'm sure most of us get alot more upset over lesser bad beats, let alone waiting for the biggest tournament of the year and getting crippled early in the first session like that.
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