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Fnord
Old 05-02-2006, 10:35 AM     Post subject: Hands from tonight #1 (permalink)  
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Late night game, couple soft spots, the rest of the table is either tight/passive or loose/passive. I've been beating up on this guy quite a bit and have been raising a couple hands per orbit.

Keep stringing him along or shut it down?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 ($149.35)
MP1 ($93.30)
MP2 ($35)
CO ($34.70)
Button ($103.75)
SB ($124.65)
Fnord ($104.65)
UTG ($53.60)

Preflop: Fnord is BB with K, K.
6 folds, SB raises to $3, Fnord raises to $9, SB calls $6.

Flop: ($18) 3, 3, 7 (2 players)
SB checks, Fnord bets $10, SB raises to $20, Fnord calls $10.

Turn: ($58) 6 (2 players)
SB bets $25, Fnord raises to $75.65...

Opponent is loose and kinda donkish.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP2 ($176.65)
CO ($141.55)
Button ($98.50)
SB ($117.35)
Fnord ($147.60)
UTG ($206.55)
MP1 ($102.60)

Preflop: Fnord is BB with A, 5.
3 folds, CO raises to $4, Button calls $4, 1 fold, Fnord calls $3.

Flop: ($12.50) 5, 5, 3 (3 players)
Fnord bets $9, CO raises to $22, Button folds, Fnord calls $13.

Turn: ($56.50) A (2 players)
Fnord checks, CO checks.

River: ($56.50) 5 (2 players)
Fnord bets $25...

Terrible opponent, takes his hands way too far. He likes to buy-in for $40 and I've already stacked him twice. He apparently thinks KQo unimproved g00t when Fnord raises his flop c-bet all-in.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP3 ($86.40)
CO ($65.50)
Button ($69.50)
SB ($41.85)
BB ($40)
UTG ($99.80)
UTG+1 ($118.65)
MP1 ($172.20)
Fnord ($204.80)

Preflop: Fnord is MP2 with T, T.
3 folds, Fnord raises to $4, 3 folds, SB calls $3.50, 1 fold.

Flop: ($9) 3, J, J (2 players)
SB checks, Fnord bets $6, SB calls $6.

Turn: ($21) 6 (2 players)
SB bets $3, Fnord raises to $6, SB calls $3.

River: ($33) 4 (2 players)
SB checks, Fnord bets $10, SB raises to $25.85, Fnord calls $15.85.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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gabe
Old 05-02-2006, 12:58 PM #2 (permalink)  
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do you ever lead the turn in hand 2
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Fnord
Old 05-02-2006, 01:03 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
do you ever lead the turn in hand 2
Good question.

I was kinda hoping for a blank turn so he could push me off my obvious flush draw or weak pair and I could ask him if he wanted to stack off.

I was thinking he was on something like KK-TT and got spooked by the double scare card. Does Ax ever bet here? With an Ace in my hand, do I put him on Ax?

I checked figuring he had like 0-2 outs and I'd see if I could find a bet somewhere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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GatorJH
Old 05-02-2006, 01:47 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
do you ever lead the turn in hand 2
With his hand and that particular board I would have checked as well. Villian either:

Loved the A, which would result in a bet - Result: You stack him
Hated the A, which means he is done with the hand anyway
Loved the Heart (with a holding like KJ or KQs), at which point I am praying the 4th heart hits the river.

Edit: I should note however that if I had not made a boat here (if I didn't have the A) I absolutely would have led out on this turn.
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gabe
Old 05-02-2006, 03:14 PM #5 (permalink)  
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i think you should bet the turn in hand 2. i would check if the card wasn't so scary and try to get allin.

i think a $25 bet is good, it seems small enough that it could bring a pocket pair along (or at least one with a heart). if he hated the A and is not putting any more money in, betting is best anyway because it protects your hand and is seen as a bluff. i dont think he bets this turn often enough to make checking best.

in general, i think leading when the scary card drops usually looks like a bluff and is more likely to get paid off.
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AHiltz
Old 05-02-2006, 03:53 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
i think you should bet the turn in hand 2. i would check if the card wasn't so scary and try to get allin.

i think a $25 bet is good, it seems small enough that it could bring a pocket pair along (or at least one with a heart). if he hated the A and is not putting any more money in, betting is best anyway because it protects your hand and is seen as a bluff. i dont think he bets this turn often enough to make checking best.

in general, i think leading when the scary card drops usually looks like a bluff and is more likely to get paid off.
Great post.

Now, you fire at the turn and he calls. River comes 5 and you?? River comes X and you ?
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Lukie
Old 05-02-2006, 03:56 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 KK hand: love it, lots of cards can beat you (don't underestimate what the SB could have here) or kill your action. Get it in. You're way ahead of his range here, and if he has something like A3, oh well.

A5s hand: There's so many things you can do on this flop. Lead, c/c, c/r, etc. I like the way you played it. I'd 3-bet here sometimes though, especially if I thought he was stronger then usual (like he had a pair of tens or something), but I like the way you played it. Turn I don't know what I'd do. Sometimes I'd come out leading, other times I'd check with the intention of check/raising. River is a must lead, and betting what you think gives you the greatest expectation is the way to go.

TT hand: Don't like it at all. Turn is really donkish unless you think this guy will give you a cheap showdown by min raising his 1/7th pot bet. River I would just take my free showdown.
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Fnord
Old 05-02-2006, 04:29 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukie
TT hand: Don't like it at all. Turn is really donkish unless you think this guy will give you a cheap showdown by min raising his 1/7th pot bet. River I would just take my free showdown.
I was going to take my free showdown, took a moment to enjoy pwning this guy in yet another hand then took another look at the board, reviewed the line he took, considered my opponent and value bet for total pwnage...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Miffed22001
Old 05-02-2006, 06:06 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 doesnt leading in hand 2 encourage either
1. fold to flush looking line
2. fold bcoz ace is scary
3. advertise you can beat an ace anyway bcoz ur still beting despite it falling.
Although opp is a totaly retard anyway, i just cant see his 22 bet being anything but a made hand that the Ace scares the shit outta.
still nhs gg thx fishy!
haha i 3 bet that river on hand 3 to see whether he'll call some more..
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GatorJH
Old 05-02-2006, 07:27 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukie
TT hand: Don't like it at all. Turn is really donkish unless you think this guy will give you a cheap showdown by min raising his 1/7th pot bet. River I would just take my free showdown.
I was going to take my free showdown, took a moment to enjoy pwning this guy in yet another hand then took another look at the board, reviewed the line he took, considered my opponent and value bet for total pwnage...
Please tell me you said "nice call" after raking in the chips.
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Fnord
Old 05-02-2006, 07:37 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorJH
Please tell me you said "nice call" after raking in the chips.
He pushed, I thought about it and called, so it's "nice raise, you almost had me."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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bdawg56kg
Old 05-02-2006, 08:36 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Hand 1, looks good, although I don't mind calling the turn since it's probably a WA/WB situation and there's not a lot of bad river cards for you.

Hand 2, I think I like a flop 3-bet. If he is "loose and kinda donkish" he isn't folding an overpair most likely.

Hand 3, wtf? I don't get it. What's wrong with winning a small pot here? edit: I think you need to be more specific on your read. Was he the type of donk that bluffs too much or calls too much? In either case I don't like the turn minraise. What does this accomplish?
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Fnord
Old 05-02-2006, 11:57 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdawg56kg
Was he the type of donk that bluffs too much or calls too much? In either case I don't like the turn minraise. What does this accomplish?
Cheap showdown. I changed my mind on the river.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Fnord
Old 05-03-2006, 08:38 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Hand 1: He folded to the turn push. Wondered if he would have stacked off if I called. I only fear an Ace on the river. However, it's a big pot, blah blah blah...

Hand 2: He had AJo and I really think I left a lot of money on the table. I'm comming around to betting being the best play on the turn. River is interesting too, perhaps the Zeebo theorm applies?

Hand 3: He had 88 and gave his stack to me for the 3rd time in 2 orbits, then left the table. Funny little hand, does anyone like it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Lukie
Old 05-03-2006, 09:18 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Hand 1: He folded to the turn push. Wondered if he would have stacked off if I called. I only fear an Ace on the river. However, it's a big pot, blah blah blah...
Pot is big, lot's of draws out that could beat you or kill your action, and it's less then a half-pot sized raise. I like.

edit: with so little money behind, killing your action isn't really a huge concern, but it still IS somewhat of a concern, and fwiw I still think you made the right play. Also remember that if he does have a draw, he will only call bets on 4th street.

Quote:
Hand 2: He had AJo and I really think I left a lot of money on the table. I'm comming around to betting being the best play on the turn. River is interesting too, perhaps the Zeebo theorm applies?
haha, I love zeebo's fh theorom.

The line you took was nice (lead, call), but it puts you in a funny spot when such a scare card comes and you are out of position. I never argued against a turn lead here.. it's probably the best way to inflate the pot, especially if your opponent is more of a passive type that calls too much and doesn't raise/bet often enough.

Quote:
Hand 3: He had 88 and gave his stack to me for the 3rd time in 2 orbits, then left the table. Funny little hand, does anyone like it?
heh, I think you'd be able to tell us more then anyone else. Just looking at the hand it's kinda silly, but you had the best hand the whole time and correctly went with your read. Not much else to say .
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Miffed22001
Old 05-03-2006, 12:15 PM #16 (permalink)  
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 i dont think a lot of people see hand 3 as a large edge against a fool.
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Fnord
Old 05-03-2006, 01:53 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
i dont think a lot of people see hand 3 as a large edge against a fool.
I strive to play better than to camp big edges.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Vrax
Old 05-03-2006, 02:39 PM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Hand 3: He had 88 and gave his stack to me for the 3rd time in 2 orbits, then left the table. Funny little hand, does anyone like it?
Quote:
"...Fnord ($204.80) "
I guess you found a buddy

Ni han, with 50BB in play and some specific reads like "overplays wired pairs, always puts Fnord on air" it can be reasonable play. Nice play, I like it. But with normal opponent I'd rather go for cheap SD.
"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
 
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gabe
Old 05-03-2006, 04:22 PM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Hand 2: He had AJo and I really think I left a lot of money on the table. I'm comming around to betting being the best play on the turn. River is interesting too, perhaps the Zeebo theorm applies?
if you bet the turn, the pot is big enough to push on river
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Miffed22001
Old 05-03-2006, 06:01 PM #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Miffed22001 wrote:
i dont think a lot of people see hand 3 as a large edge against a fool.


I strive to play better than to camp big edges.
Question of curiosity related to your answer here. In lhe full ring or 6max what are your vpip/pfr stats?

btw, no shit sherlock! :P
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