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allLiving
Old 01-09-2005, 01:05 AM     Post subject: Hand to Discuss #1 (permalink)  
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Castell was seemingly loose, and his flop re-raise didn't make sense on the flop. After a long thought process i re-raised him all in and he called. would you have done the same? Calling here is not an option in my opinion.

------HAND 3------
Game #234268364: Texas Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1) - 2005/01/08 - 20:51:10 (EST)
Table "Sunrise" Seat 6 is the button.
Seat 1: matt5678 ($111.50 in chips)
Seat 2: Mightyred ($162.25 in chips)
Seat 3: PureAir4u sits out
Seat 4: Parabola3 ($79.75 in chips)
Seat 5: Castell ($29.50 in chips)
Seat 6: billhung ($14.50 in chips)
matt5678: posts small blind $0.50
Mightyred: posts big blind $1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Parabola3 [8h 8s]
Parabola3: calls $1
Castell: calls $1
billhung: calls $1
matt5678: calls $0.50
Mightyred: checks
----- FLOP ----- [4d 9d 9h]
matt5678: checks
Mightyred: checks
Parabola3: bets $2
Castell: raises to $12
billhung: folds
matt5678: folds
Mightyred: folds
Parabola3: raises to $78.75 and is all-in
Abdu20071 joins the table at seat #3
Castell: is all-in $16.50
Returned uncalled bets $50.25 to Parabola3
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Riverwreckage
Old 01-10-2005, 10:01 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I'm interested to see how this ended up. I would be very worried about pocket 4's, or maybe even a A9 with no preflop raise. I probably would have folded unless you've caught him bluffing at pots a few times prior to this hand.
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Corey
Old 01-10-2005, 10:12 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Honestly if you have a read on him the better. But you cannot really know what he has preflop if he limps in.

Correct?


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jokerindapack
Old 01-10-2005, 10:49 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I'd would say A9 is a stronger possibilty than 44 but both are very viable card holdings to put him on. As for the raise W/ others still to act he might want to kill any flush draws out there if he's holding A9 or the 44 because he doesn't have much left in comparison to your stack and the other 2 bigger stacks and might want to just take the pot down right then and there.

I agree w/ Corey though if you had the read great. You also got him covered as well so if he was bluffing screw him take it down.
"You can't lose what you don't put into the middle, but you can't win much either." - Rounders
 
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bspahn
Old 01-11-2005, 06:25 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Definitely interesting. The pot's at $4 I think, so a $12 raise seems out of place, it could indicate trying to buy the pot - you might know how he played other hands.

Now being a loose player he could be in there with anything, maybe even 94s.. if he had 44 he'd either put in a min raise or smooth call I'd think. I think a real possibility here is 9x more likely with a higher kicker but not necessarily, but he'd want to take it down with 3 9's due to the flush draw.

How did it pan out?
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Aces
Old 01-11-2005, 07:32 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Seems that more often then not a bet like that is a strong hand not a bluff. Even with a read I'd fold there. Even loose playeres get good hands/flops. He could have played a craptacular hand that had a 9 or even slowplayed a higher pair.

Price is too high to find out.
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rdqlus
Old 01-11-2005, 08:47 PM #7 (permalink)  

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Obviously, someone holding 44 doesn't care about the flush draw and would probably play this a bit more slowly. The $10 raise seems a bit large but maybe he has been bitten by fish chasing that flush and wanted to just take it down early.

I'd guess he has a 9 and has you beat. (To really be guessing I'd say that he has a weak kicker to go along with it) In any event I'd fold to that bet ... but what do I know.

mj
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Ayce
Old 01-11-2005, 09:21 PM #8 (permalink)  
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I'd think he had a 9 and was chasing off the flush draws which is what your initial raise looks like. In which case he would see your all in raise, which he does, and unless you get lucky you lose.
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bspahn
Old 01-13-2005, 12:00 AM #9 (permalink)  
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so, how did it pan out
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allLiving
Old 01-13-2005, 03:57 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Here it is folks.

----- TURN ----- [4d 9d 9h][9c]
----- RIVER ----- [4d 9d 9h 9c][3h]
----- SHOW DOWN -----
Parabola3: shows [8h 8s] (A Full House, Nines full of Eights)
Castell: shows [4c 7c] (A Full House, Nines full of Fours)
Parabola3 collected $59 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot $62 Main pot $59 Rake $3
Board [4d 9d 9h 9c 3h]
Seat 1: matt5678 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: Mightyred (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: Parabola3 showed [8h 8s] and won ($59) with A Full House, Nines full of Eights
Seat 6: billhung (button) folded on the Flop
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bspahn
Old 01-13-2005, 08:03 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Good Stuff !
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michael1123
Old 01-13-2005, 09:22 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Damn, the result was posted before I could post. I was going to say I'd do exactly the same thing you did. Without considering his position I'd be putting him on a 4, and with considering it I'd be putting him on a PP (which would likely be lower than yours since he just limped along) or a flush draw.

The reason being is that in my experience players barely ever raise big with a flopped set when they're using a board pair, on the flop. They at least wait until the turn, as they want to make money of the hand and typically a bet like that would scare everyone out of the pot. Putting him on a boat is pretty silly as players almost never reraise on the flop with a boat.

I know it sounds crazy to say that I'd be putting him on a 4, but I really do find that raises in these type of cases (especially if you raised preflop and then lead at the flop) are typically hands with the other card on the paired flop, representing the board set but still having a possibility of having the best hand. Its what I was thinking he had just by looking at his flop raise and not by where he called from preflop, which makes his play a bit strange, but I really think his post flop play is pretty standard for a lot of aggressive players.
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rdqlus
Old 01-13-2005, 07:48 PM #13 (permalink)  

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Ok ... so was Castell crazy to call the all-in then? Holding 74o just wouldn't feel like a winning hand with that board and the other guy re-raising you all-in.

mj
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dalecooper
Old 01-13-2005, 08:14 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdqlus
Ok ... so was Castell crazy to call the all-in then? Holding 74o just wouldn't feel like a winning hand with that board and the other guy re-raising you all-in.

mj
If he thinks the other guy only has overcards and no pair, he's the favorite. I'd do it if I was absolutely convinced of that read. Otherwise it's pretty loose.
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michael1123
Old 01-13-2005, 11:28 PM #15 (permalink)  
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That's why that guy put half of his small stack in at the flop. He was pot commiting himself and didn't care what anyone did.
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