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had no idea with this hand

  
 
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salsa4ever
Old 03-22-2006, 10:27 AM     Post subject: had no idea with this hand #1 (permalink)  
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KQo on the CO, 9 handed $400 NL

2 call before me. I bump it up to 18. BB calls, villain (one spot before me calls).

Flop is K74 all hearts

I bet 55 into a 74 pot
villan calls

turn is a 7 spade. I bet 125
villain calls

river is a 9 of clubs. villain puts it all in
Effective stack is 332.5

What's your move?

please critique the entire hand and what's your move?
no meaningful read on villain. He chats a lot, but has been playing kinda solid. I've been catching some cards, so been raising and cont betting more than statistically probable. He didn't play back at me on rag boards when I held overcards. Hasn't shown down very much, so can't really read.
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Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
Quote:
Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
 
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nutsinho
Old 03-22-2006, 01:54 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 It's fine 'til the turn, where you really need to check behind. This will set up an easy river decision for your less-than-strong hand.
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DaHorror
Old 03-22-2006, 03:09 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I don't mind you betting the turn in hope for a cheap river showdown or easy river decision. Your play seems fine.

It appears that you got the information that you needed on the river, so you make a reasonably tough fold here.
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Miffed22001
Old 03-22-2006, 04:35 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 you were behind on the flop and awfully behind on the turn.
No way you call the river.
It looks like you potted the turn? I wouldnt have done that for pot control reasons. Id bet half the pot on the turn leaving opp to decide how he wants to play the river. If given the chance to check behind i would i think but if bet into id be careful of calling fearing a river value bet by a lot better hand.
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bdawg56kg
Old 03-22-2006, 04:37 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Fold quickly. You have the exact hand your betting pattern is repping. You would need a read to call this. Like nutsinho said, I would try to find a check on either the flop or turn. You really don't want to be playing a big pot here. Use your position and control the pot size. Did you have the Qh?
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salsa4ever
Old 03-23-2006, 03:31 AM #6 (permalink)  
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I did not have the Qh

The pot on the turn was 184. So i didn't pot it. I didn't want to give villain the free card so I bet 125. I was prepared to fold if villain check raised me all in at that point.

But what makes me curious is why would he call on the turn and push the river? If he had a made flush, surely he would not want a 4th heart to fall and either beat him or scare me off. I could see him doing this with an Axh or a missed draw. Is a set-->full house a realistic possibility?

As it turned out, I thought there was too many ways for me to be beat and folded. True to form, villian got real obnoxious in the chat along the lines of "HAHA FUKN WEAK A-HIGH..." Do you believe him?

On the turn, should I be thinking "I'm ahead, don't give him a free card", or "I'm behind... I'm check-folding", or "I don't know, and I'm only prepared to play a small pot. If villain sees my weakness and has the balls to attack and put me to the test on the river, then he outplays me and he gets it. If villain has no balls and makes a weak-looking bluff, I'll call him down".

Alternative way to put the question: in this situation

is pot control more important
OR
is not giving away the free card and not appearing weak (trying for the free showdown) more important

What should be my process when trying to decide whether to check, bet (and not commit, like this example), or bet and commit/push? Please don't say reads. I know they're useful.

What is your line if the board was KQ4 of hearts instead?

I have this turn play problem a lot. And i'm sure it's one of my biggest leaks ('cos these mistakes are *so* expensive!)
Quote:
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Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
Quote:
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well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
 
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Renton
Old 03-23-2006, 03:51 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 the fact that he limped and called a big bet PF suggest he has a pair and couldn't have flopped a pat flush, correct?

So given that marginally accurate assumption, he could have hit a set with a small pair, or he could have been bluffing you the whole time.
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johnny_fish
Old 03-23-2006, 12:18 PM #8 (permalink)  
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I find myself checking behind the turn *a lot* at 400NL. After a PFR + a called cbet you're either up against
- a draw
- a hand which is way behind (a PP who puts you on missed overs, e.g. J33 flops).
- or a hand which is way ahead (set/2 pair; limpcall EP/MP from a nit.. watch out).

If it's unlikely Villain is drawing, checking the turn behind is the right move.

Anyway, in this hand you're pwned by a full house I think. He pushes the river to make it look like a busted draw.
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