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This guy is either really good or really bad...

  
 
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ngericl
Old 11-05-2005, 08:15 PM     Post subject: This guy is either really good or really bad... #1 (permalink)  
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In both of these hands, I'm trying to represent the better hand. Either the dude sees right through it, doesn't know enough to fold, or I didn't represent as much as I thought.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB ($16.60)
UTG ($23.75)
UTG+1 ($128.70)
MP1 ($58.55)
MP2 ($29.10)
MP3 ($56.65)
Hero ($34.80)
Button ($30.90)
SB ($34.95)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T, K. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
5 folds, Hero raises to $1, Button calls $1, SB (poster) calls $0.75, BB calls $0.50.

Flop: ($4) A, K, 9 (4 players)
SB bets $1.5, BB folds, Hero calls $1.50, Button calls $1.50.

Turn: ($8.50) Q (3 players)
SB bets $5, Hero calls $5, Button folds.

River: ($18.50) 7 (2 players)
SB bets $5, Hero raises to $15, SB calls $10.

Final Pot: $48.50

Results in white below:
Hero has Ts Kc (one pair, kings).
SB has As Qh (two pair, aces and queens).
Outcome: SB wins $48.50.

and...

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

SB ($8)
BB ($0)
UTG ($45.90)
UTG+1 ($49.50)
UTG+2 ($49.50)
MP1 ($69.75)
MP2 ($95.30)
Hero ($33.92)
CO ($48.75)
Button ($48.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 4, 2. SB posts a blind of $0.25. UTG posts a blind of $0.50.
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, 1 fold, Button calls $0.50, 1 fold, UTG (poster) checks.

Flop: ($2.25) 7, A, K (5 players)
UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks, Button bets $1, UTG folds, MP2 calls $1, Hero calls $1.

Turn: ($5.25) J (4 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $3, Button calls $3, MP2 folds.

River: ($11.25) 8 (3 players)
Hero bets $10, Button calls $10.

Final Pot: $31.25

Results in white below:
BB doesn't show.
Hero has 4c 2c (high card, ace).
Button has Kh 2h (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Button wins $31.25.
ningster

My only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

"Your best hand isn't just the hand with which you have the best cards, it's the hand with which you find yourself in the best position to make money." -- Daniel Kimberg
 
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Fnord
Old 11-05-2005, 08:19 PM #2 (permalink)  
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You did not play those hands..... right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Greedo017
Old 11-05-2005, 08:42 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
You did not play those hands..... right?
i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
 
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UG
Old 11-05-2005, 08:50 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Looks like he's having a fish fry and you're invited.

Too bad you're the appetizer, main course, and desert. Fish pudding is so yummy this time of year.


 
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Greedo017
Old 11-05-2005, 09:01 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 "Fish pudding"

That could possibly be the grossest thing that I could ever imagine eating.
i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
 
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lolzzz_321
Old 11-05-2005, 09:17 PM     Post subject: Re: This guy is either really good or really bad... #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngericl
Hero ($34.80)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngericl
Hero ($33.92)
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Silly String
Old 11-05-2005, 09:22 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Don't bluff representing a straight. Most people don't recognize them. They are great to make money off of though when you hit them. People fear the flush more, so if you are going to represent a draw, only bluff 4 to a straigh or a flush board. Just my $.02.
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Aplomado
Old 11-05-2005, 11:43 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Wow, are you honestly making money playing ring games?

You can't play ring games like that. In ring games, you wait for a monster and then hammer away at the pot.

Never never never never never never never bluff in ring games. People call with crap especially at the low stakes. That was the big mistake in the second one.

In the first one, I can't imagine why you are calling such big bets with second pair. You shouldn't be calling with KT preflop to begin with (same with 42 suited), let along betting after an Ace hits just because you got your King.
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Fnord
Old 11-06-2005, 12:01 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aplomado
Never never never never never never never bluff in ring games.
You so silly. I think what you really mean to say is that you can make lunch money in these small NLHE games by just camping hands and never bluffing. Also, you have to ask what a bluff really is? There are all sorts of plays you can make with various levels of bluff to them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Aplomado
Old 11-06-2005, 12:06 AM #10 (permalink)  
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OK ok, there are some situations you can bluff, but normally it's so ill-advised I just avoid it altogether. And again, this may not apply to higher limits. But c'mon, anyone who's played $25NL knows that people call with the most unbelievable shit. I can't count the times I've said what Rummie is saying in your avatar when I bet out my trips.
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Fnord
Old 11-06-2005, 12:10 AM #11 (permalink)  
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The biggest problem I have with the above hands is that he's bluffing into strength on boards that someone likely hit pretty hard. With the river bluff in the first hand, there is no "OMG I'm playing for my stack, do I have the nuts" factor when he raises the river. Nor does he mention any reads. There are some guys who are easy to beat up on, and others you just need to show a hand to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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DaHorror
Old 11-06-2005, 02:40 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Don't you need to reraise on the flops here in order to bluff?
Just calling to the river and then raising a semi callable amount doesn't seem to work all that well...and I agree with Silly String that bluffing like you called half the pot with your gutshot straight draw isn't terribly effective.

Are you normally getting laydowns playing like this?
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NoctoZ
Old 11-06-2005, 03:10 AM #13 (permalink)  

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Regarding the first example.

His call on the river is correct, and I think you played the hand badly. The small blinds bet on the flop is correct. He has top pair and need to test the waters. By calling you arent exactly striking fear into his heart. He probably puts you on a draw. When he pairs the quicker on the turn I think he is correct bet out again. You could have a jack ten for straight, but that is far from the only likely holding.

When you again just calls him he might smell something fishy, but he could as well just put you on the flushdraw, an ace or maybe nothing (very common in small stake games). The river is a safe card, but even though, I would probably check call here. What did you plan to do if he had checked? How big would you be bluffing the pot? Anyway, I think his raise what a little risky but your reraise is giving him almost 4 to 1 to call. Folding would have been a huge mistake from his part.

I would like to add that it is very risky, not to say completely meaningless to stonecold bluff at low NL ring games. Of course, the occasional bluffbet on the flop, or some kind of bluff when theres four to a flush or straight can come in handy. But the bottom line is, if your intent is to bluff someone out it isnt a particulary good idea to just call him on two streets and then giving him proper odds to call at the river.
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Old 11-06-2005, 06:05 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Muxy
Old 11-06-2005, 07:13 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aplomado

Never never never never never never never bluff in ring games.
rofl
How many bankrolls have you lost bluffing in ring rippy?

- Muxy
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Fnord
Old 11-06-2005, 07:29 AM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muxy
How many bankrolls have you lost bluffing in ring rippy?

- Muxy
"I've bluffed away millions to earn my action repuation" - Spirit Rock

Bluffing is fine, sometimes it works and being willing to bluff gets you ACTION from anyone paying attention. You just need to pick your spots and risk tolerance.

My whole game is centered around splashing around in small pots to generate calls when I over-play the nuts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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