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Great flop - everybody folds

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renegaderob1

10-02-2005, 01:35 AM Post subject: Great flop - everybody folds

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: Australia

Posts: 311

Ok, so I've now officially moved up to 50NL and I while the level of play is slightly tighter, it isn't much harder than 25NL (wasn't really expecting it to be).

How would you go about getting money in this situation? Checking on the flop would just give a free card; which I may not want as there is straight possibility and it may seem suspicious if i check the flop and come out firing/reraising the turn/river..

***** Hand History for Game 2809174847 *****
$50 NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, October 01, 20:24:09 EDT 2005
Table Table 36897 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: DERB_ ( $84.10 )
Seat 2: Dorlune ( $78.85 )
Seat 4: renegaderob1 ( $46.40 )
Seat 3: nico714 ( $43.40 )
Seat 6: JULY4MAN ( $55.85 )
Seat 5: lachinhatemi ( $22.30 )
Dorlune posts small blind [$0.25].
nico714 posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to renegaderob1 [ Qs Kc ]
renegaderob1 calls [$0.50].
lachinhatemi raises [$1].
JULY4MAN folds.
DERB_ folds.
Dorlune folds.
nico714 calls [$0.50].
renegaderob1 calls [$0.50].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ks, Kd, As ]
nico714 checks.
renegaderob1 bets [$1].
lachinhatemi folds.
nico714 folds.
renegaderob1 does not show cards.
renegaderob1 wins $4.10

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bencathers

10-02-2005, 02:11 AM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Manhattan & Boston

Posts: 480

happens. maybe slowplay the flop and c/r on the turn? but it looks like this is one of those hands where you have a monster and extract no value

Dealer: bencathers has two pair, Aces and Deuces
Dealer: Tbags has two pair, Kings and Jacks
Dealer: Tbags finished the tournament in 256th place
Tbags [observer]: another scumbag gets there on this site lol

DaNutsInYoEye

10-02-2005, 03:07 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: St. Louis

Posts: 1,921

When in doubt, lead out.

TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?

r8ed

10-02-2005, 03:44 AM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

Nobody's staying in that hand unless you check. I think you played it fine. Just take the small pot.

DaNutsInYoEye

10-02-2005, 05:56 AM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: St. Louis

Posts: 1,921

Quote:

Nobody's staying in that hand unless you check. I think you played it fine. Just take the small pot.

No... someone with a K, an A, or a 4-flush may very well stay in. Anyone with those hands can beat you by seeing a free card. Why give a free turn when anyone with a PP can beat you too? Leading out both protects your hand and disguises it. If you bet the flop you're likely to win a small pot. If you wait till the turn or later you're also likely to win that same small pot or lose a much bigger one.

TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?

Irisheyes

10-02-2005, 11:40 AM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: over there

Posts: 3,708

Yea win a small pot or loose a big one, I'll take the first option.

BIGandRICH

10-02-2005, 02:47 PM Post subject: Re: Great flop - everybody folds

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Jazz Club

Posts: 419

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegaderob1

How would you go about getting money in this situation?

I wouldnt expect to.. lead out and take a small pot..

villain goes AI
i call with a set (i have him owned)
i win pot
villain: **** this, this site is bullshit, ******* rigged, suck out ****

Seasider

10-02-2005, 08:39 PM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Bangor UK

Posts: 563

I also play 50NL and recently have been thinking about how to act when I flop a monster. At first I would check then bet the turn or river, but this was not really doing much, either people would fold when I bet (caus it looked like exactly what it was a monster trying to hide itself, any bet big enough to get the worth of the hand is not going to be made by someone hitting that 2d on the river!) or someone would catch up to split pots (esp straights) or win (flushes)!

So for the last few sessions i've been taking 'route one' on flops like this; i.e. not just betting the pot but throwing out some obscene 2-3 times pot bet. This seems to be doing ok for me, firstly on Paradise at 50NL sometimes it feels like the more you bet the more people think you are bluffing. I think this is because I see a lot of people from 25NL buyinhg in for 50% and are looking for a quick boost to their 'roll they think "big stakes game now, people pull moves A high is golden"

Secondly fish are not playing to fold their cards but to win $$ when they see a big pile on the table its a draw. Thirdly related to the first point as prople are thinking its time to pull moves they would assume the nut hand would slowplay and several times people have pushed back over me to rep the hand i'm looking at, and if you've thumped in a good raise they are normally pot committed to go all in by the end of the hand. Cant find any hh's but will look some out as I can.

Also even if people fold you prob wouldnt have won much anyway and it helps build a nice loose table image, esp on 5 max tables i play at.

Lexicon Devil

10-03-2005, 05:48 AM

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 58

In my experience, the most common mistake that beginners make is assuming that the better a hand, the more money it should make them.

They believe that their straight deserves more than their two-pair, and their two-pair deserves more than a measly pair. As a result, they get into alot of trouble trying to get this money into the pot - when it finally comes, they find out that they're beaten.

Trips (meaning one card in the hand, two on the board) are one of the silliest hands to slowplay, yet you see it done all the time. With a pair on the board staring you in the face, who in their right mind is going to invest alot of money in the pot without 3-of-a-kind or better? You're never going to make alot of money on this hand unless someone else has trips with a worse kicker. So you might as well just lead out and bet.

Of course, i'm talking about multi-way here. A heads-up situation (or even 3-way if they're low-medium trips) is much different.

dsaxton

10-03-2005, 07:02 AM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Arlington, VA

Posts: 2,667

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexicon Devil

You're never going to make alot of money on this hand unless someone else has trips with a worse kicker. So you might as well just lead out and bet.

You can actually win some decent pots from a player with an ace with some creative post-flop play.

A nice line you can use here (one that I use frequently) is to lead out and bet, then when you get called you can generally put your opponent on an ace. If you check the turn, you've concealed your hand completely (you're acting as though you're afraid of the kings, or even the ace alone) and induced a bet from your opponent, at which point you can put out a substantial raise. A lot of players will even semi-bluff the turn when you check to them if they were on a draw on the flop. This approach can win some nice pots.

An interesting thing about this line is that, up until the turn raise, it's identical to the line which any aggressive player will be making all the time when they raise preflop and represent the flop but don't necessarily have much of a hand.

---

There's really no point in slow-playing this. If everyone folded, you weren't going to win anything anyways.

I remember a hand I played a while back where I had 3-3 and called an early position raise, along with another guy. The flop came K, K, 4, they both checked to me, and I checked. The turn was a 3, the guy who opened preflop bet, the other guy raised, I reraised, and both ended up going all-in (they both had kings) on the turn and I busted both of them. I think that hand helps illustrate the stupidity of slow-playing trips. There was no way I was getting involved unless I hit a full house, in which case both opponents were going to lose a huge pot.

Lexicon Devil

10-03-2005, 07:09 AM

#11 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 58

Oh, I agree with that line. I didn't mean to imply that you can't make any more money off the hand, just that you won't make a bundle.

BIGandRICH

10-03-2005, 11:00 AM

#12 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Jazz Club

Posts: 419

I'm going to try and sum up these type of hands will some general poker theory.. and what i say has been said, i'm just going to try and put it in a easily understood form. (hopefully easily understood)

1. If someone is going to call, it is assumed that they have something worth calling with.

2. If they dont have something worth calling with, they probably wont have something worth calling with on the turn/river either

3. If someone has something worth calling, but not betting, eg. flush draw, they will either suck out for free or pay nothing after they miss.

4. The way money is made (usually) in poker is a player will call with a strong but second best hand.

5. If a player has a strong second best hand, they will call your bets, so bet

6. If a player does not have a strong second best hand, they will either suckout and own you, or fold.

When your slow playing, your hoping that a player will catch something worth betting, but something that you are still beating.. ie. letting someone catch a flush when you flop full house. If slowplaying will let someone catch a hand that is beating you.. then dont slow play.. In this case, the flush could come out and force you to fold to a big bet. You dont want that

villain goes AI
i call with a set (i have him owned)
i win pot
villain: **** this, this site is bullshit, ******* rigged, suck out ****

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