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Good laydown (finally) after some marginal play...

  
 
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lowBoy
Old 05-27-2005, 08:01 PM     Post subject: Good laydown (finally) after some marginal play... #1 (permalink)  
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MP1 had been calling a lot PF (PT showed 59% over 55 hands), not raising too much, but once he did hit a flop he liked to stay with it.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter

Button ($24.5)
SB ($24.75)
BB ($34.35)
UTG ($14.5)
UTG+1 ($32.5)
UTG+2 ($44.83)
MP1 ($22.1)
MP2 ($21.3)
Hero ($25.1)
CO ($15.95)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q, K. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
UTG calls $0.25, 2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1, CO calls $1, 2 folds, BB calls $0.75, UTG calls $0.75, MP1 calls $0.75.

Flop: ($5.10) 5, Q, 6 (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $2, CO calls $2, BB folds, UTG folds, MP1 calls $2.

Turn: ($11.10) 8 (3 players)
MP1 bets $4, Hero calls $4, CO folds.

River: ($19.10) 9 (2 players)
MP1 goes all-in [$15.1]
Hero folds.


Looking back on this, I should have bet more on the flop, and not let him draw... the call from the CO gave him the odds for an OESD... since he was calling preflop with half his cards, he could have very well had the straight at the turn.

At the time, I was thinking at the end there that he was bs-ing with a very quick all-in push... but I couldn't call it.
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Fnord
Old 05-27-2005, 08:04 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Is KQo really a hand you want to play a raised pot with against this crowd?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Element187
Old 05-27-2005, 09:05 PM #3 (permalink)  
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i dont like two callers on my flop bet here, its check and fold time with top pair and decent kicker.
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lowBoy
Old 05-27-2005, 10:18 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Fnord - Probably not. I know it can make an appealing second best hand and with 3 callers into the flop, there's a good chance someone could flop something better than my hand.

Element - Yeah, that's what I thought afterwards. I sometimes have a hard time distinguishing between the need for a continuation bet on the turn and the need to lay down my cards.

If I was going to play the KQo with a raise in this position and I hit my Q on the flop, should I bet the flop harder for info, and lay down after a re-raise or a call on the turn? It might have saved me a couple of bucks with a stupid turn call if I'd led out with 2/3rds to a pot sized bet and he called.
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Chicago_Kid
Old 05-28-2005, 02:12 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowBoy
Element - Yeah, that's what I thought afterwards. I sometimes have a hard time distinguishing between the need for a continuation bet on the turn and the need to lay down my cards.

If I was going to play the KQo with a raise in this position and I hit my Q on the flop, should I bet the flop harder for info, and lay down after a re-raise or a call on the turn? It might have saved me a couple of bucks with a stupid turn call if I'd led out with 2/3rds to a pot sized bet and he called.
I have trouble laying back when out of position in this spot as well---in both limit and no-limit. The difference for me is exactly what you mentioned. In NL, I will bet around 2/3 the pot almost everytime. If I get a caller from a reasonably competent player, I know to slow down. If you wuss out on the flop, you are stuck firing at a bigger pot on the turn when he might already be made. In essence, I want him to get jumpy and raise me on the flop, if hes strong. Now, limit is the real problem for me in this scenario
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DimitriT
Old 05-31-2005, 05:29 PM #6 (permalink)  
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without a read on MP1 you can't really do much with this hand.
was MP1 playing suited connectors? Does he slow play TPTK?

Could he have gone into the
hand with 67s and called on middle pair with baby straight? With
two opps after the flop, it looks like a larger bet may have been
needed to push out the middle pair guy. The $4 bet on the turn
is a mystery. Could he have Q8 or 68s. Seems very unlikely.

A hand like this, I would have led off with a $4 bet on the flop.
This should eliminate any straight draws and middle pairs. Anyone
left is likely a strong Q, two-pair or a set.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 05-31-2005, 05:48 PM #7 (permalink)  
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I'm debating between just droping the hand on the turn or pumping it up. Calling is silly unless you had reason to believe he'd bet again on the river behind. And even if you did, then the pot is getting messy.

Tough hand, but I dont think it's worth fighting for on the turn.

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