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dalecooper
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01-28-2005, 09:58 PM
Post subject: Good fold, or..?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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I didn't snag the hand history on this one so I'll describe it as accurately as possible.
PL $25 buy-in table. I am in mid position with AK suited. Folds around to me, and I min-raise to $1... being cute and changing things up, because I've been raising a lot and winning a lot, so I feel like people are gunning for me. It folds around to the blinds. SB folds also, then the BB raises me big, up to $3.75. I don't have a read on the player, suspect a high pair, but I call. Maybe I shouldn't have.
Flop is rainbowed, two rags and a king. I lead out aggressively letting him know I have a hand. $5 bet. He immediately raises me to the pot limit.
I thought about it, thought about it some more, slept on it, fought internal wars with all my instincts and motes of common sense, and eventually folded. My thinking:
1 - he *probably* has aces or kings, and if he has either I'm dead.
2 - the best thing I can realistically hope for is that he has AK and we're going to split the pot. This is a big amount to call hoping for a split though. Part of the reason you can call (or raise) here usually is expecting to win a certain % of the time and make the hand profitable in the long run... if I'm hoping for AT BEST a split, I think it's a negative expectation situation... yes?
3 - the best thing I can unrealistically hope for is that he's a moron overvaluing AQ or AJ, or he's crazy in love with pocket queens or pocket jacks. I have no notes on him so this is IMO a VERY unrealistic hope. Chance of this being the case, maybe 10% or less.
So... was I right to fold? I felt like I was, and still do, and overall despite losing $9 or so on this hand, I left the table up about $30.
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Corey
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 1,349
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did you get a read on him later on during this time?
imo good fold to this. tptk not always good
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Corey
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{This post has been removed}
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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Because you minraised preflop, I would continue this hand. If you had put in a reasonable raise preflop and he still reraised you preflop and on the flop, you might consider letting this go.
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
(sigh)
A/K....flop the King on a rainbow flop and fold to a raise ???
Only 2 hands beat you there assuming he didnt flop 2 pr
if you arent going to play that hand to the end....why even bother playing A/K in the first place |
That's partly the point - when he re-raised me to the pot limit pre-flop, maybe I should have folded. Given that I didn't, I think I read him correctly as having aces and had to let that go.
The other part of the point is, you don't make money in poker by saying to yourself "well I already have x amount of money in the pot, and I got the flop I wanted, so even though he's re-raising me repeatedly I'm just gonna shove all in and hope." Like I said, unless he really is a lunatic, he's got at least the same hand I have, and I'm hoping to split - HOPING. Is that a good play?
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Sed
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....
Posts: 1,102
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I think your pre-flop slow play screwed you here. If you were going to be trixy with AKs and min-raise... why??? According to your description of the table texture, you wanted someone with a vendetta to either limp or come over the top of you trying to buy the pot so you can destroy them, right? In that position, I would have re-raised preflop to punish the stealer or see if he had a high PP. If he came over you again, drop it. You can cut down the possible hands he has with a pre-flop re-raise and make your post-flop life easier. In situations like this, with a player I have no read on, I tend to re-raise pre-flop more often to build up information. With a player I know, when I know they have me beat, I'll just call if it is a reasonable raise and I have a hand that has multiple ways to beat kings or rockets... just my thoughts.
- sed
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Joke
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 131
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A re-raise would be nice pf to se if he wanna push it, then you might let it go... But on the flop its all in to win!
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koolmoe
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01-31-2005, 02:43 PM
Post subject: Re: Good fold, or..?
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#8 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dalecooper
PL $25 buy-in table. I am in mid position with AK suited. Folds around to me, and I min-raise to $1... being cute and changing things up, because I've been raising a lot and winning a lot, so I feel like people are gunning for me. It folds around to the blinds. SB folds also, then the BB raises me big, up to $3.75.
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This alone is reason to continue. BTW, when people are gunning for you and you have a hand preflop, raise it big. They want to make a stand at some point; might as well let them make it when you have a real hand.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dalecooper
I don't have a read on the player, suspect a high pair, but I call. Maybe I shouldn't have.
Flop is rainbowed, two rags and a king. I lead out aggressively letting him know I have a hand. $5 bet. He immediately raises me to the pot limit.
I thought about it, thought about it some more, slept on it, fought internal wars with all my instincts and motes of common sense, and eventually folded. My thinking:
1 - he *probably* has aces or kings, and if he has either I'm dead.
2 - the best thing I can realistically hope for is that he has AK and we're going to split the pot. This is a big amount to call hoping for a split though. Part of the reason you can call (or raise) here usually is expecting to win a certain % of the time and make the hand profitable in the long run... if I'm hoping for AT BEST a split, I think it's a negative expectation situation... yes?
3 - the best thing I can unrealistically hope for is that he's a moron overvaluing AQ or AJ, or he's crazy in love with pocket queens or pocket jacks. I have no notes on him so this is IMO a VERY unrealistic hope. Chance of this being the case, maybe 10% or less.
So... was I right to fold? I felt like I was, and still do, and overall despite losing $9 or so on this hand, I left the table up about $30.
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He's more likely to have AK (6 ways) than AA (2 ways), and certainly KK (1 way). And why are you ruling out KQ (8 ways)? If I thought you were running over the table, I would certainly make a stand with KQ or KQs. If you're beat this time, oh well. I still think it's profitable to call in the long run given the scenario as you laid it out.
Assuming you narrow his range of hands to AA, KK, AK, and KQ based on his preflop play, 3 times you lose, 6 times you split, and 8 times you win. Clearly you have to call. If you rule out KQ it's a much more marginal call. Still, I think there's a pretty significant chance that he's bluffing here, and I would call anyway.
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