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Good example of table talk

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mouteut

10-24-2005, 03:31 AM Post subject: Good example of table talk

#1 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 152

PokerStars Game #2878508231: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2005/10/23 - 23:09:41 (ET)
Table 'Tone' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Scwh ($20.25 in chips)
Seat 2: 1DownURnext ($49.55 in chips)
Seat 3: skinslite ($9.05 in chips)
Seat 4: x17dukex ($13.60 in chips)
Seat 5: northernTY ($8 in chips)
Seat 6: Floofy ($34.65 in chips)
northernTY: posts small blind $0.10
Floofy: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Floofy [5h 4s]
Scwh: folds
1DownURnext: calls $0.25
skinslite: calls $0.25
x17dukex: folds
northernTY: calls $0.15
Floofy: checks
*** FLOP *** [6h Jd 2h]
northernTY: bets $0.50
Floofy: calls $0.50
1DownURnext: calls $0.50
skinslite: folds
*** TURN *** [6h Jd 2h] [3s]
northernTY: checks
Floofy: bets $2
1DownURnext: calls $2
northernTY: folds
*** RIVER *** [6h Jd 2h 3s] [8d]
Floofy said, "what if i steal the pot"
Floofy: bets $31.90 and is all-in
1DownURnext: calls $31.90
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Floofy: shows [5h 4s] (a straight, Deuce to Six)
Floofy said, "sucker"
1DownURnext: mucks hand
Floofy collected $67.30 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $70.30 | Rake $3
Board [6h Jd 2h 3s 8d]
Seat 1: Scwh folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: 1DownURnext mucked [8c Jc]
Seat 3: skinslite folded on the Flop
Seat 4: x17dukex (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: northernTY (small blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 6: Floofy (big blind) showed [5h 4s] and won ($67.30) with a straight, Deuce to Six

I was just stun.....i didn't expect a call. I think my table talk might have made a difference. Also i had a very loose agressive image at that table.

Note: sry if i didn't convert, but i wanted the chat to be there.

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allLiving

10-24-2005, 04:17 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 799

You didn't have pot odds to call the flop for a gutshot, but if you think you had implied odds to de-stack this guy that's a different story. In my opinion you are only taking his stack if he has two pair, or a set, which he ended up catching a 2nd pair on the river. The table talk might have worked, but at higher levels this won't work.

Nice hand, but I'd advise against trying this on normal players because the amount of times you de-stack them, or double up, isnt going to offset the amount of times you wasted money chasing a gutshot.

PocketFives - allLiving
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jmontis

10-24-2005, 05:34 AM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 1,296

ya the money isn't really deep enough to justify chasing the gut

take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately

r8ed

10-24-2005, 02:37 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

That's hilarious. Nice play. Type the same thing next time you don't hit on the same table. I think you'll get half the table on tilt if you get folds and show.

Rondavu

10-24-2005, 02:45 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

You have more than enough odds (pot+implied) to call 50¢ on the flop here for a gut shot. Your hand is deceptive, and it may get payed off well if you hit. You always have to consider the deception factor. Flushes are obvious. Weird straights are NOT.

As for the table talk, it had nothing to do with anything. It was simply correct for you to push when your opponent caught two pair. Of course you didn't know that. It just happened to be the case.

You would be surprised how many people fail to realize how much an opponent will call. Maximizing value is a huge issue for a lot of players. Let me ask you this. Would you have pushed if you hadn't stated "What if I steal this?"

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

mouteut

10-24-2005, 03:45 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 152

Im not quite sure if i would have pushed this at any given time. I did it because my image was very loose, almost maniac(been playing lot of hands, bluffing people out). If i knew this guy was tight and i was tight myself, i might not have done this(pot sized probably). In his position, i would never have made that call. I would have been scared of set.

But i think you are very right, i could mazimize my profits from the nuts a lot more, i will work on this.

As for table talk...i'm not sure if it made a difference or not in this hand, but im pretty sure it can make one if done properly.

4-5 hand later i was dealth KK and some guy with 45$ raised to 5$ whitout any limpers(massive overbet). I waited like 45 seconds, trying to get information from him and i finally pushed. But doing this actually made him fold, the whole table knew my hand( anyway he only had 44). I waited long because its unusual to see huge stacks push so hard without KK AA. Everyone knew i holded KK the way i acted.

I think sometimes table talk can be very useful. In later stages of MTT, ill often tell my hand before going all in and then show them, and then do it a few times with garbage when i sense weakness. It works well if i don't run into AA QQ KK JJ. I will just go up by blind stealing. I get a very tight image that way and people don't want to call me.

Or sometimes, when someone open with a good raise in later stages of MTT and my hand is decent(JJ+), ill often say something like "ok i pay off your AA". This very often scares them off(i think for about 1 minute saying stuff like "hmmm very tough lay down").

I mostly do this on the bubble when i dont want them to call me and end the tourney on a bad beat. But i realize that this could be used when i have a weak hand.

Rondavu

10-24-2005, 05:47 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

If you're trying to convince me that table talk is a legitimate tool, then don't bother. It's a tool I use. It's more like an artform. A good table talker gives himself an advantage ala Marcel Luske. It's a hell of a lot of fun to get into an opponents head. I flopped trips one time on the button and talked the guy acting before me into racing for his whole stack. He showed down jack high.

As for maximizing value, when your image is loose it becomes profitable to push with the nuts almost every time.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

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Good example of table talk

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