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jogonz667

10-14-2007, 04:48 PM Post subject: Good/bad laydown?

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2007

Posts: 5

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($9.98)
BB ($5.01)
UTG ($6.13)
UTG+1 ($9.76)
MP1 ($1.83)
MP2 ($19.32)
Villain ($5.54)
CO ($10.42)
Hero ($9.93)

Preflop: Hero is Button with :Th: :Kh:
4 folds, Villain calls $0.05, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.05, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.17)

(3 players)
BB checks, Villain checks, Hero bets $0.1, BB calls $0.10, Villain calls $0.10.

Turn: ($0.47)

(3 players)
BB checks, Villain checks, Hero bets $0.15, BB folds, Villain raises to $0.3, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $0.77

A newbie here... Just wondering how to "calculate" reverse implied odds in a situation like this, as the 5:1 pot odds look tempting, but I might be drawing dead, or near to it, and since this was my 3rd hand on the table, I had no read on the player.

Afterwards I decided to spectate on a few other tables he was on (he had at least 8 running), and got some stats:

72 hand sample..
Pre-flop played: 46%
Won at showdown: 33%
Preflop AF: 0.6
Postflop AF: 2.7

From these stats, am I right in interpreting that this guy is fairly LAG, especially post-flop? Having had these stats beforehand, would a call be justified?

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Renton

10-14-2007, 06:49 PM

#2 (permalink)

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{moved}

his preflop raise stat is important.

Start by raising preflop to like 0.25. Its very profitable to isolate limpers with hands like KTs.

I see no probably with folding to the minraise on the turn as played, but its kinda trivial either way you look at it. Its for so little money that calling the minraise would be a small mistake at best.

jogonz667

10-14-2007, 10:51 PM

#3 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2007

Posts: 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

Start by raising preflop to like 0.25. Its very profitable to isolate limpers with hands like KTs.

Is there any specific reason you say this? I normally put limpers on small PPs, AXs or suited connectors, so KTs IMO is a risky hand, as it was in this case I think.

bigspenda73

10-14-2007, 10:56 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jogonz667

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

Start by raising preflop to like 0.25. Its very profitable to isolate limpers with hands like KTs.

Is there any specific reason you say this?

Probably, seeing how he is one of the bigger winners in the mid-stakes games.

You say limpers have small PPs and AXs. Just think how many flops they have to c/f b/c you've shown agression and you have the initiative.

NLHE lahooozaher

10-15-2007, 01:12 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

Its for so little money that calling the minraise would be a small mistake at best.

I disagree with this. Calling the minraise isn't terrible if we had a made hand and the hand ended now but calling and hitting our hand can cost us alot of money.

Renton

10-15-2007, 01:23 AM

#6 (permalink)

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oh yeah, and check the turn.

Chopper

10-15-2007, 02:25 AM

#7 (permalink)

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raise pf. you have a decent hand with the position you have and very little action in front of you. use the button strongly and raise here. plan to cbet the flop.

great, you pick up a strong draw and two overcards with decent kickers. problem, the board paired. what do you do since he checked? betting is good, but it was too small, imo. you needed to be around $.15-$.20 into this pot.

board double paired on turn. thats a HORRIBLE card for you, especially since you are only on a draw w/ overs. you check behind. sure, once he raised you, you still had odds ($.15 to call into what was $.90 = 6:1). but, you are right, you could very easily be dead here. prolly not terrible to call or fold, so long as you dont call a big bet on river. you plan to check behind or call a weak value bet. obviously, reads would have helped, unavailable as they were.

this mess could likely have been avoided by a pfr and cbet. had he called your cbet, you are in "pot control" mode from the flop on folding to serious aggression, but not betting yourself, either.

as for reverse implieds, and i may way off here, but i dont see that you have much to worry about. you are folding to any real aggression, and only calling profitably. if you hit your flush, the dbl paird board should keep you from doing much other than bet/folding river. i cant see you winning or losing a monster pot here, thereby keeping your RIO to a minimum.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

bbqsquirrel

10-15-2007, 04:05 AM

#8 (permalink)

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Give up once the board double-pairs

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daven

10-15-2007, 04:15 AM

#9 (permalink)

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check behind on turn. Fold to a river bet, even if river is a heart.

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

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jogonz667

10-15-2007, 12:42 PM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2007

Posts: 5

Thanks for all the replies. I realise now that checking the turn would have been a better idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Quote:

Originally Posted by jogonz667

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

Start by raising preflop to like 0.25. Its very profitable to isolate limpers with hands like KTs.

Is there any specific reason you say this?

Probably, seeing how he is one of the bigger winners in the mid-stakes games.

Okay, I should have said "What is the reason for this", i.e: why is it +EV.. What kind of hands will I isolate by raising. etc.

My problem is that if I raise pre-flop and someone OOP calls, I will assume that I'm an underdog and then surrender to a bet on the flop if I don't hit it with decent strength.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

You say limpers have small PPs and AXs. Just think how many flops they have to c/f b/c you've shown agression and you have the initiative.

I suppose that was an ambitiously short range for these stakes, add in K-x suited, any two face cards, J-9, 1-gap and possibly, in position with odds, 2-gap suited connectors. The problem is that I have no way of realizing whether somebody has a connector from 56 though to KQ.

Am I - in general - over-rating 5NL players?

Chopper

10-15-2007, 02:26 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

Quote:

Am I - in general - over-rating 5NL players?

YES!!!!

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

BankItDrew

10-15-2007, 11:14 PM

#12 (permalink)

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your turn bet is not folding any hands.

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archangel95

10-17-2007, 03:42 PM

#13 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2007

Posts: 55

I think you should give up after the board double pairs.

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