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giving him a chance to bluff my hand

  
 
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DimitriT
Old 07-17-2005, 06:34 PM     Post subject: giving him a chance to bluff my hand #1 (permalink)  
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I didn't raise it because I wanted to show it down. This was my first hand at the table and I wanted to build image. Thoughts?

PokerStars Game #2123876425: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2005/07/17 - 14:27:35 (ET)
Table 'Pippa' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: superman24 7 ($57.10 in chips)
Seat 2: racing24 ($30.05 in chips)
Seat 3: KEVCASH ($71.10 in chips)
Seat 4: DimitriT ($50 in chips)
Seat 5: NewAgeSmit ($46.75 in chips)
Seat 6: marcsavard27 ($50.55 in chips)
Seat 7: BigDaddy007 ($41.55 in chips)
Seat 8: spacejam08 ($39.70 in chips)
Seat 9: PRCS ($27.95 in chips)
KEVCASH: posts small blind $0.25
DimitriT: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DimitriT [9h 6c]
NewAgeSmit: folds
marcsavard27: folds
BigDaddy007: calls $0.50
spacejam08: folds
PRCS: folds
superman24 7: folds
racing24: calls $0.50
KEVCASH: calls $0.25
DimitriT: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qs 7c 8d]
KEVCASH: bets $0.50
DimitriT: calls $0.50
BigDaddy007: calls $0.50
racing24: calls $0.50
*** TURN *** [Qs 7c 8d] [5c]
KEVCASH: checks
DimitriT: bets $1
BigDaddy007: folds
racing24: calls $1
KEVCASH: folds
*** RIVER *** [Qs 7c 8d 5c] [6d]
DimitriT: checks
racing24: bets $6
DimitriT: calls $6
*** SHOW DOWN ***
racing24: shows [8h Ah] (a pair of Eights)
DimitriT: shows [9h 6c] (a straight, Five to Nine)
DimitriT collected $17.15 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $18 | Rake $0.85
Board [Qs 7c 8d 5c 6d]
Seat 1: superman24 7 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: racing24 (button) showed [8h Ah] and lost with a pair of Eights
Seat 3: KEVCASH (small blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 4: DimitriT (big blind) showed [9h 6c] and won ($17.15) with a straight, Five to Nine
Seat 5: NewAgeSmit folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: marcsavard27 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: BigDaddy007 folded on the Turn
Seat 8: spacejam08 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: PRCS folded before Flop (didn't bet)
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bair
Old 07-17-2005, 06:39 PM #2 (permalink)  
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build what image?
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DimitriT
Old 07-17-2005, 06:45 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bair
build what image?
Image of someone who shows down winners?
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bair
Old 07-17-2005, 06:56 PM #4 (permalink)  
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i dont think many people pay attention to that at $50 NL, but i guess its a good idea, id prefer trying to pick up an extra bet
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Deadmoney
Old 07-17-2005, 09:01 PM #5 (permalink)  

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I don't know, personally I don't think this move is worthwhile. Any other time in that situation you would probably re-raise the river trying to get more from your opponent. To me this adds nothing to your image, because:

A: Most people aren't going to notice anyway, and

B: The ones that do will just dismiss it because they know you're just trying to build a table image.

I just don't get what you're trying to advertise here...that when you have someone beat you're going to call their bets? That pretty much goes without saying.

If you wanted to show it down, I think just doubling his bet there may have gotten a call...and if not, no harm no foul. Just my opinion.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 07-17-2005, 09:15 PM #6 (permalink)  
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You're missing an amazing amount of value on the turn and river.

-'rilla
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DimitriT
Old 07-17-2005, 09:27 PM #7 (permalink)  
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No way that he would call. Perhaps if the 6 wouldn't have fallen on the river. The way I played it, it was obvious he was either bluffing or we were splitting the pot, I didn't feel he had a hand to bet with from the flop and there was the small possiblity (with the 6 falling) that he could have a higher straight than me. So the odds were good that we are either splitting the pot or he is representing my hand. This is the reason I checked to him. I wanted him to try to represent my hand with a bluff and that worked well. But if he did have my hand (or a higher hand), raising would have just increased the rake or caused me to lose a bet. The play was certainly to call there.

The benefit to table image is not my primary reason for not raising. But it is a useful side effect.
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spino1i
Old 07-17-2005, 09:35 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DimitriT
No way that he would call. Perhaps if the 6 wouldn't have fallen on the river. The way I played it, it was obvious he was either bluffing or we were splitting the pot, I didn't feel he had a hand to bet with from the flop and there was the small possiblity (with the 6 falling) that he could have a higher straight than me. So the odds were good that we are either splitting the pot or he is representing my hand. This is the reason I checked to him. I wanted him to try to represent my hand with a bluff and that worked well. But if he did have my hand (or a higher hand), raising would have just increased the rake or caused me to lose a bet. The play was certainly to call there.

The benefit to table image is not my primary reason for not raising. But it is a useful side effect.
You'd be suprised what people call with in 50 NL, I wouldnt be surpised if you minraised the river that he would call. I seriously doubt he has your hand beat.

Also, having played A LOT of 50 NL 10 max in my time, players dont give a hoot about table image. Even if they did, you dont benefit from changing your table image. You benefit from knowing your table image, but changing it is just going to force you to change your play. By calling with a very strong hand, the only thing people will think is that you are a passive player, not really to be feared. I dont know if this is a good thing. Its not really going to allow you to pull any amazing bluffs, and it wont really get everyone calling your big value bets either.

At higher levels where table image comes into play (200+ NL), table image is a spectrum. One of the most important characteristics of the spectrum is how much people think you're bluffing. If you have the image of a bluffer, you will get paid of a lot. If you have the image of a straight player, then you can bluff a lot. Both have advantages, which I feel are equal. The interesting thing is, at the really high levels (600+ NL) you have to be constantly changing this image, as the table adapts to you're previous image and playing style. If I'm at a 600 NL table I'm constantly going back and forth between a more straight TAG style and a crooked (lots of bluffing) LAG style
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dsaxton
Old 07-17-2005, 10:51 PM #9 (permalink)  
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I'd bet larger on the turn, and then make a small bet on the river. A random player will probably just check behind with four straight cards on the board if he/she doesn't have the straight, so you might as well try to get some extra value.

The only image this hand might create is one of a passive player, as far as I can tell.
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Staple Gun
Old 07-17-2005, 10:52 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Definetly raise that, if you really want to show then click SHOW MY CARDS if he folds. Anyways, I persoally would rather have people belive I'm bluffing in ring, because if your monsters double you up, it is way more profitable than stealing a few small pots here and there.
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