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Getting stacked in the blinds... 100NL FR

  
 
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gametight
Old 08-15-2007, 09:29 PM     Post subject: Getting stacked in the blinds... 100NL FR #1 (permalink)  
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Hand 1

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

BB ($102.15)
UTG ($31.45)
UTG+1 ($191.20)
MP1 ($106.65)
MP2 ($20.90)
CO ($127.05)
Button ($47.75)
Hero ($102.10)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[], 9[].
4 folds, CO calls $1, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($3) 3[], 9[], A[] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $3, CO calls $3, Hero raises to $11, BB folds, CO calls $8.

Turn: ($28) K[] (2 players)
Hero bets $21, CO raises to $115.05, Hero calls $69.10 (All-In).

River: ($233.15) 6[] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $233.15


Should I be able to lay down this turn?

Hand 2

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

UTG ($20.70)
UTG+1 ($97.15)
MP1 ($29.95)
MP2 ($218.10)
MP3 ($103.65)
CO ($19.90)
Button ($227)
SB ($99)
Hero ($135.70)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[], 2[].
7 folds, SB raises to $3, Hero calls $2.

Flop: ($6) 5[], 8[], T[] (2 players)
SB bets $5, Hero raises to $15, SB calls $10.

Turn: ($36) 5[] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($36) J[] (2 players)
SB bets $22, Hero raises to $50, SB raises to $81, Hero calls $31.

Final Pot: $198
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Deanglow
Old 08-16-2007, 12:04 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1 I think is perfectly fine to stack off.
Hand 2 on the river you are NEVER ahead here. Does anyone like a fold or must we always call this?
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gametight
Old 08-16-2007, 03:40 AM #3 (permalink)  
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What about the river raise?? I think I get value from some hands but is it enough?? In other words, should I just call that river bet?
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 08-16-2007, 05:12 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 Hand 2).

-Villain's range after flop re-raise (K-10+, J-J+, 5-5/8-8/10-10, Flush Draws, OESD)
-Villain's range after the river lead (Flush, 5-5/8-8/10-10, bluff). Other legitimate hands that could have called a flop re-raise aren't betting this river. Would a non nut flush call a re-raise on a paired board? Probably, since it is Blind vs. Blind. Would a full house call a re-raise on a paired board? No, they would raise again. Would a nut flush getting >5:1 call a river 3bet? Unfortunately, they probably would have to since there is always a small chance villain could be bluffing.

There is no need to complicate this situation. Basically you will end up paying more when you are behind by raising this river than you will win from weaker hands calling that raise.
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MuddyWicket
Old 08-16-2007, 09:35 AM #5 (permalink)  
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I know I'm stupid enough to play the second hand as played but the first hand is it stupid to fold the turn because I can only see two hands playing this way and its KK or AK.
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ChrisBCritter
Old 08-16-2007, 12:16 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyWicket
I know I'm stupid enough to play the second hand as played but the first hand is it stupid to fold the turn because I can only see two hands playing this way and its KK or AK.
Talk about seeing monsters...AK and KK are very UN-likely for villian in hand one due to pre-flop. Stranger things have happened though. Realistically, Villian has 33, 99, A9 or a Nut-flush draw that hit his K (or two pair) on the turn K9s? Stacking off here isn't a bad thing usually.

Hand 2: Like the others I don't like the river raise. Call that down, I don't see a fold here though.
Hey knucklehead! Bonk!
 
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gametight
Old 08-16-2007, 07:18 PM #7 (permalink)  
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In hand 1 he had 33. With the big turn raise, I really felt like I was beat. I timed down with my mouse on the fold button but I just couldnt do it. I talked myself into thinking he could do this with some worse hands but i reallly thought he had a set for some reason. I need to start going with my gut more often i guess.
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MuddyWicket
Old 08-17-2007, 11:05 AM #8 (permalink)  
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I'm now I'm disagreeing with everyone else but I'm struggling with hand one. Does anyone have any drawing hands in mind that they would shove if they were the villain and why?

The hero has done everything he can to say he's strong with the check raise on the flop and fires strong again on turn. Villain clearly still thinks he has you beat or can get you off the hand. He's also bet twice the size of the pot.

Final question. I keep seeing 'don't go broke in an unraised (preflop pot)'. Does this apply and should it affect our thinking when we consider calling this shove?

and yes in a real game, I probably squirm for ages before clicking call then scream and run around the room berating my lack of discipline and a dozen other aspersions on my skillz.
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BankItDrew
Old 08-25-2007, 08:50 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1: I think I could barely get away from this one. It's not a huge pot when villain pushed, and there are enough hands that beat you, including a preflop lime with a big hand.

hand 2: I can't get away from this. The pot is $167 and it's $31 to call with an ace high flush. You are beat (otherwise you wouldn't post this), but I don't see a fold. After calling and seeing villain with JJ I usually just sit there and cringe.


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Fnord
Old 08-26-2007, 12:27 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Play shorter or pay attention and you won't find yourself as lost in these spots. Against a regular I hate stacking off in hand 1.
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spoonitnow
Old 08-26-2007, 02:35 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1 is semi-close but without a read that villain is a total retard I think you've gotta fold.

Hand 2 I just call the river.
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I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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