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Getting someone to make a bad call

  
 
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spino1i
Old 12-19-2005, 07:12 AM     Post subject: Getting someone to make a bad call #1 (permalink)  
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I dont think this guy would normally make such a horrible call if it wasnt for the push on the turn. I did it hoping that he would think a monster wouldnt push and call with his weaker hand. I mean why would a monster drive his hand out of the pot? Alas he got suckered..

***** Hand History for Game 3226624967 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, December 19, 03:04:31 EDT 2005
Table Table 65303 (6 max) (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: ShuffleCheck ( $85.50 )
Seat 2: Evil_Ecstasy ( $61.85 )
Seat 3: kopterdoc ( $169.25 )
Seat 5: adhd123 ( $96.80 )
Seat 6: Omak69 ( $133.45 )
ShuffleCheck posts small blind [$0.50].
Evil_Ecstasy posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Evil_Ecstasy [ Th Kh ]
kopterdoc calls [$1].
adhd123 folds.
Omak69 folds.
ShuffleCheck calls [$0.50].
Evil_Ecstasy checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qh, Ks, Kd ]
ShuffleCheck bets [$4].
Evil_Ecstasy calls [$4].
kopterdoc folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2c ]
ShuffleCheck bets [$12].
Evil_Ecstasy is all-In [$56.85]
ShuffleCheck calls [$44.85].
** Dealing River ** [ Qd ]
ShuffleCheck shows [ Qs, 6s ] a full house, Queens full of kings.
Evil_Ecstasy shows [ Th, Kh ] a full house, Kings full of queens.
Evil_Ecstasy wins $122.70 from the main pot with a full house, Kings full of queens.
ShuffleCheck has left the table.
BR now: $106900
Playing now: $10/10/20 - $20/40 NL live, $10/20 NL full ring online, $10/20 NL 6-max online, $20/40 FL 6-max online, $100/200 FL live
Goal: $125000 for $25/50 NL live
 
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bdawg56kg
Old 12-19-2005, 07:38 AM #2 (permalink)  
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I think you just got lucky and ran into a stubborn fish. Granted this is 5-handed, but villian's call was attrocious. You would have had to have a really laggy image to even begin to justify this call by villian. I don't mind a smooth call on the turn, and then pushing the river. I mean if villian is not gonna fold the turn, there's no way he folds the river. NH tho.
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ThelVlaster
Old 12-19-2005, 07:42 AM #3 (permalink)  
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It seems this play works better when you are out of position, betting into someone. You risk the chance of having everyone fold on the flop but if you get a caller you can possibly destack someone who doesn't think you have a K. I too believe you got lucky, most people lay that down when the person with position goes all in (especially with a cold call on the flop)

edit: typo
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spino1i
Old 12-19-2005, 07:45 AM #4 (permalink)  
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what if an A shows on the river? What if he's semi-bluffing and drawing to a straight?

In both those situations smooth-calling on the turn is a bad idea. And who would think a queen (with crap kicker too lol) would play so aggressive? I dunno the hand was kinda strange lol
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bdawg56kg
Old 12-19-2005, 08:47 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spino1i
what if an A shows on the river? What if he's semi-bluffing and drawing to a straight?

In both those situations smooth-calling on the turn is a bad idea. And who would think a queen (with crap kicker too lol) would play so aggressive? I dunno the hand was kinda strange lol
The only reason a river ace would be a scare card is if you put villian on JT or AA. We can rule out AA, so that only leaves JT. If villian really likes to bet his draws hard (especially on a paired board), then I guess JT is a possibility, but that is the only drawing hand you are worried about. I mean in every situation you can pretty much find some sort of draw that is a possibility, but if you always play in fear of these draws by pushing super hard with your big hands to discourage drawing, then I believe you lose value in the long run. Against thinking opponents sometimes you have to give that free card once in a while to conceal the strength of your hand. Anyway, the fact that you have position on villian is more of a reason for smooth calling. If an A or 9 hits, you can see what he does first. But this will only happen 15% of the time, so 85% of the time you can pick off his desperate bluff, or throw in a nice value bet. Also, why do you think "slowplaying" by smooth calling the turn is such a bad idea when you're an 85% favorite?

Aside, I think pushing the turn like you did is only profitable against donkeys that have the "he's bluffing syndrome". Instead of pushing, I like raising to $30 or so (minraise here wouldn't be so bad either). That way if he is semibluffing, you make him pay for his draw, but not blow him out of the water with a push. You might also get a Q to come along. But to me smooth calling the flop and raising the turn screams "I have a king!" which is why I like smooth calling the flop and turn or raising the flop hard and checking the turn maybe. I think it better conceals your hand (which I don't think is as vaunerable as you do ignoring the results).
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spino1i
Old 12-19-2005, 02:42 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

The only reason a river ace would be a scare card is if you put villian on JT or AA.
Scare card for him not putting his money in the middle, not me lol
BR now: $106900
Playing now: $10/10/20 - $20/40 NL live, $10/20 NL full ring online, $10/20 NL 6-max online, $20/40 FL 6-max online, $100/200 FL live
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