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spoonitnow
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10-06-2008, 09:53 AM
Post subject: General Question: C-Bet on AA8
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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100bbs 9-handed table, unknown EP Villain limp/calls our LP raise. The flop comes AA8 rainbow. Which hand should we be happier to c-bet, KQo or JTo?
To some people this might seem like a dumb or irrelevant question, but answer it seriously anyway.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
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I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,814
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tj cos of blockers vs villain's range
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KQo because I can still improve over JJ and TT easier if they decide I don't have trips or a bigger pair
he continues with 12 hands instead of 18 though when he have JTo
if he doesn't limp suited connectors UTG, he has 22-JJ to work with
22-77 - 6x6 combinations for a fold
88 - 3 combinations for set minan'/slowplayan'
99 - 6 combinations to call
TT - x combinations to call
JJ - x combinations to call
with KQo we have 18 hands that call, 3 hands that have us crushed, 36 hands that fold
if we bet 2/3 pot, we'll get 21 calls/raises and 36 folds
we have 36 times we win the pot right there, 21 times we have 22% equity
same with JTo, BUT:
15 call/raise 36 folds with 16% equity
aw fuck it looks like JTo is more profitable so I change my answer
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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KQo has more value as a bluff catcher and more showdown value but an unknown l/c I would assign a range heavily weighted towards PPs in which case I would rather cbet both. Given that we're cbetting both KQo has more value against a calling range so it is better, also the blockers against AK/AQ are kinda useful if he's nitty. It's fairly difficult to realise showdown value in this situation with KQ especially since villain may be turning low PPs into bluffs.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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Also, a king or a queen will show up more often when you hold JTo
good time to bluff?
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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answer: neither. cbet both 100% of the time. or do you mean which should we be most happy to cbet?
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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I'm cbetting both but would prefer TJo I guess for reasons stated above but also has more turns that will help us than KQo if called.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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y would we cbet? There's two friggen aces on the board
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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answer: neither. cbet both 100% of the time. or do you mean which should we be most happy to cbet?
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Yeah that's what I mean.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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DaddyDeez
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: missoula, MT
Posts: 113
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JT? if our c-bet is called with KQ we would assume the worst that villain has an ace? Therefore if we get lucky on the turn and hit either a T or a J were only drawing to 4 outs on the river.
However if we hold JT and our c-bet is called and we get our lucky card on the turn we now have 8 outs to improve instead of just 4.
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I post nonconstructive piss
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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they are ofcourse both very easy bets, and nearly equal. KQ has the benefit of being a better hand and improving to a better holding, which at first glance makes it a better bet. However, JT is the easiest bet since it has absolutely no showdown value.
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Keilah
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northern BC, Canada
Posts: 658
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+1 Renton
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jimmy44
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Place where I can spew
Posts: 1,391
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I think the type of villain should change the answer.
Against most villain's (I would c-bet 100% of the time, but here I'm choosing 1 of the 2 for the purpose of the post) I'm for KQ because villain's calling range would be Ax or PP and KQ would beat more PPs (if it hits) plus it decreases the probability of villain having KK/QQ.
Except vs very aggro villain's that would easily c/raise this flop, where I think our KQ would be better as a bluff catcher, therefore, I would prefer to C-bet JT.
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