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samsonite2100
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06-29-2006, 10:08 PM
Post subject: Fucking Hard AA hand
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Your loosing, lolololololololololol
Posts: 858
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
MP2 ($39)
CO ($100)
Button ($85.50)
SB ($99.45)
BB ($97.60)
UTG ($43.40)
UTG+1 ($120.70)
Hero ($98.50)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A , A .
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, 4 folds, BB calls $3.
Flop: ($8.50) 6 , Q, 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $6, BB raises to $12, Hero calls $6.
Turn: ($32.50) 6 (2 players)
BB bets $15, Hero calls $15.
River: ($62.50) J (2 players)
BB bets $66.6 (All-In), Hero folds.
Final Pot: $129.10
Villain is an unknown. I'd really like some thoughts on this hand.
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Staresy
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Following the Herd to 6-Max Land
Posts: 1,240
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why not 3-bet the flop?
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freechus9
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: IN UR BOX HAXXING UR FILEZ
Posts: 1,000
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I'd consider dumping on the turn... Is that too weak/tight?
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My sig is too much for you to handle.
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LimpinAintEZ
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice
Posts: 591
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3 bet the flop - could be a flush draw or even KQ and just figures your C-Betting...3 bet to $20 and see what happens then
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samsonite2100
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Your loosing, lolololololololololol
Posts: 858
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I don't like 3betting b/c how often do you run into flop check raises where the villain doesn't have a good hand? I've got position w/ a good hand--what's wrong with just calling here?
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Setzy
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 399
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by samsonite2100
I don't like 3betting b/c how often do you run into flop check raises where the villain doesn't have a good hand? I've got position w/ a good hand--what's wrong with just calling here?
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In my eyes anyway, since you let him get away with the flop raise, it puts him in the driver's seat for the rest of the hand. This definitely looks like a hand you shoulda put it all in with, but since he took control of the hand you really don't have a solid idea what to do. The flop reraise as mentioned, or a turn raise, would re-establish control. But that's me.
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Save your stories 'cuz they're all the same..
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samsonite2100
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Your loosing, lolololololololololol
Posts: 858
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I don't know. I'm not so concerned with giving up "control" of this hand. I'm concerned with 1) maximizing my winnings if villain has an inferior hand he's overplaying and 2) minimizing my losses if villain has a superior hand he's underplaying. 3betting in case #1 runs off worse hands and in case #2 does the dirty work for them. Dunno, maybe I'm looking at this all wrong...
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bdawg56kg
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1,201
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I'd raise the turn to 45, and call a push obv. That 6 on the turn is a great card for you.
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samsonite2100
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Your loosing, lolololololololololol
Posts: 858
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Yeah, that sounds more like it
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,322
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bdawg56kg
I'd raise the turn to 45, and call a push obv. That 6 on the turn is a great card for you.
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I may be retarded here. But do you like the 6 because it decreases the likelyhood we're up against a set here? A QQ pocket pair would have p;ayed different so all we're worried about is 55?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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WhooFleuryScores
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 918
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I'd reraise the flop and fold to a push.If he just calls the reraise but again leads the turn you can give him credit for the set/two pair and get off then.
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givememyleg
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
Posts: 5,042
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Don't like the whole 3bet flop thing.
bdawg has the best line here imo... sucks if he has 55.
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bdawg56kg
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1,201
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bdawg56kg
I'd raise the turn to 45, and call a push obv. That 6 on the turn is a great card for you.
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I may be retarded here. But do you like the 6 because it decreases the likelyhood we're up against a set here? A QQ pocket pair would have p;ayed different so all we're worried about is 55? |
Yeah, it basically rules out 66, so there's only one hand that we really need to be afraid of, 55. Maybe 65, but not as likely. Plus hands like KQ/QJ are now drawing to 2 outs instead of 5. Given villian's weak turn bet, I'd look to get value out of Qx as well as charge a possible flush/straight draw. If he has 55, then just river an ace. 
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relayer
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 68
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This hand makes my head hurt...why isn't the c/r on the flop almost certainly 66? Could be QQ I suppose, but he only called pf...If it's not 66, what is it?
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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imo this is a great fold. Usually this line from villain means he has a boat and hopes u made your flush. Your line matches w overs and a flushdraw played passively.
Calling here vs an unknown is def -ev. vnh.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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LimpinAintEZ
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice
Posts: 591
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going all in with top pair is a mistake, IMO - 3 betting the flop defines your hand...Unless your up against a moron, why do you want to "maximize value" here? the flop check min-raise is a investigation bet, don't you think? So he could be flush drawing, or just raising you to see if your c-betting - when you call his min-raise, that gives the villain control of the betting IMO - what cards come on the river that you can call? If you re-raise the flop bet, you can take the pot right there or at least slow him down - By being passive, you don't really know what your up against...He could be minraising a weak queen or a flush draw - In either case, he will keep leading because your not slowing him down -
This is another case where I just don't understand why people just call with aces here - Are you trying to get involved in a big pot with 1 pair? AA UI is just a pair - even if you re-raise the flop that should help you take control and get to a cheap showdown....just my opinions...I would like to know why we do NOT want control of the betting?
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WhooFleuryScores
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 918
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In hero's defense;Erick Lindgreen makes an argument for playing Aces passively post flop if he doesn't know where he stands.The belief is that you allows worse hands to bluff off to you;and minimize(supposedly) the amount you lose to sets/etc.......although in this case they would've been all in by the river anyways.
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LimpinAintEZ
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice
Posts: 591
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yeah, i think i understand that point - And hero did fold the river which seems like the right play...I guess what i see is that people at 25NL don't respect a 4x BB bet (100NL probably different, hope to find out soon) and will bet strongly with their KQ type of hand - They overvalue hands, yes, but how much are we willing to call on the river with 1 pair? i probably play aces too scared anyway - I bet/play them very straigtforward in a cash game 99% of the time....
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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does the miniraise specifically mean a set or tp no good?
Otherwise shove the turn or make it 45/55 to go.
Quote:
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I'd consider dumping on the turn... Is that too weak/tight?
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Thsi is horrible in a blind battle, even on stars.
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