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Folding bottom set HU

  
 
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johnny_fish
Old 04-03-2006, 06:38 PM     Post subject: Folding bottom set HU #1 (permalink)  
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400NL Full. I'm BN with JJ. 3 limpers, I raise 5BB, UTG+1 calls.Villain is a regular 400NL player. Both full stacks. Flop AKJ rainbow. Villain checks, I bet 35 into a 48 pot, Villain pushes, I fold.
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nutsinho
Old 04-03-2006, 07:10 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 nice
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
 
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Renton
Old 04-03-2006, 07:19 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 do people limp/call AA/KK a lot?
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johnny_fish
Old 04-03-2006, 09:43 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Found HH. Villain was aiming for limpraise, then got greedy..

Prima Poker skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2.00/$4.00
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $360.10
UTG+1: $526.00
MP1: $354.90
MP2: $491.40
CO: $682.80
Hero: $392.00
SB: $426.30
BB: $354.78

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is Button with J J
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, CO folds, Hero raises to $20, 2 folds, UTG calls, MP2 folds.

Flop: A J K ($50, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $35, UTG raises all-in $340.1, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $305.1 returned to UTG.

Results:
Final pot: $120

Similar hand yesterday:

Prima Poker skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2.00/$4.00
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $350.00
UTG+1: $1026.60
MP1: $546.10
MP2: $359.30
CO: $598.60
Button: $361.60
SB: $70.80
Hero: $396.00

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is BB with J J
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, Button raises to $12, SB folds, Hero raises to $53, UTG+1 calls, Button folds.

Flop: 2 8 J ($116, 2 players)
Hero bets $75, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: 2 ($266, 2 players)
Hero bets $100, UTG+1 calls.

River: 3 ($466, 2 players)
Hero is all-in $176, UTG+1 calls.

Results:
Final pot: $818
UTG+1 shows Kh Kd
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DaHorror
Old 04-03-2006, 10:15 PM #5 (permalink)  
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That second one is crazy...what, did his preflop push button break or something? This is a great way to stack yourself limping a big pair in early position lol. I don't really know where I stand, but my opponent is betting way too hard to really have anything - he's probably just bluffing with a pair of 9s or something - I'll show him - doh!
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dsaxton
Old 04-03-2006, 11:37 PM     Post subject: Re: Folding bottom set HU #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_fish
400NL Full. I'm BN with JJ. 3 limpers, I raise 5BB, UTG+1 calls.Villain is a regular 400NL player. Both full stacks. Flop AKJ rainbow. Villain checks, I bet 35 into a 48 pot, Villain pushes, I fold.
Without reasoning, this post is not very interesting.
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nutsinho
Old 04-04-2006, 01:23 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaxton
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_fish
400NL Full. I'm BN with JJ. 3 limpers, I raise 5BB, UTG+1 calls.Villain is a regular 400NL player. Both full stacks. Flop AKJ rainbow. Villain checks, I bet 35 into a 48 pot, Villain pushes, I fold.
Without reasoning, this post is not very interesting.
It is self-explanatory
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
 
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freechus9
Old 04-04-2006, 07:27 PM #8 (permalink)  
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I don't really know how you can fold that. There are many other hands that play like this preflop. And the check/raise on the flop could be a bluff to counter a c-bet from you. What reads do you have on villain and what is your image like?
My sig is too much for you to handle.
 
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Fnord
Old 04-04-2006, 08:28 PM #9 (permalink)  
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58,410 games 0.010 secs 5,841,000 games/sec

Board: Ac Kd Jh
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 50.8766 % 50.14% 00.73% { KK+, AKs, AJs, QTs, AKo }
Hand 2: 49.1234 % 48.39% 00.73% { JJ }

This is close.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Fnord
Old 04-04-2006, 08:34 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freechus9
the check/raise on the flop could be a bluff to counter a c-bet from you. What reads do you have on villain and what is your image like?
Pushing to pick off a c-bet is silly. Pushing into a PFR on a PFR friendly board is either suicide or genius. I think he puts hero on something like AK/AQ/JJ here and wants a call.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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johnny_fish
Old 04-04-2006, 09:03 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
I think he puts hero on something like AK/AQ/JJ here and wants a call.
Exactly. That's why your EV calculation doesn't make sense.
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bdawg56kg
Old 04-04-2006, 09:36 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Nice hand and good laydown. I think you see QT almost everytime. Without a read, it would be close, but I would probably call this.

Johnnyfish, what if you hold KK here? Personally I think I'd call with KK but not JJ. Hmmm.
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nutsinho
Old 04-04-2006, 09:37 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 He is definitely behind if the guy is a decent regular...
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
 
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bdawg56kg
Old 04-04-2006, 09:41 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho
He is definitely behind if the guy is a decent regular...
Agreed, but regardless, villian's line is horrible unless he knows hero badly overplays his hands and can't find the fold button. Also, given the fact that hero raised on the button makes this play even worse, as hero's range should be significantly wider opening in position. A simple CR to $90 or a flop lead would be much more effective and +EV.
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johnny_fish
Old 04-04-2006, 10:10 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdawg56kg
Johnnyfish, what if you hold KK here? Personally I think I'd call with KK but not JJ. Hmmm.
With KK I'd make a crying call and start throwing up a bit.

Quote:
simple CR to $90 or a flop lead would be much more effective and +EV.
A c/r would put me in a awkward spot. How to distinguish trappy AA/KK from AK/AJ?

I felt like I was given the cheap way out here by Villain.
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Fnord
Old 04-04-2006, 11:07 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_fish
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
I think he puts hero on something like AK/AQ/JJ here and wants a call.
Exactly. That's why your EV calculation doesn't make sense.
I think it's a very reasonable range. People do lots of strange things. Certainly we should consider the chance he does this with with AK. AJ/QTs aren't a stretch either. Neither is a bluff. I think this is really close and wouldn't fault you going either way. Hence our gut is the tie breaker.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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johnny_fish
Old 04-05-2006, 12:01 AM #17 (permalink)  
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I should've add the info that people often try to trap with AA/KK at these tables + Villain is tight-passive.

That makes it a easy fold.

Found this HH of Villain when I looked through my PT-database later..:

Prima Poker skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2.00/$4.00
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $371.00
UTG+1: $653.51
UTG+2: $479.40
MP1: $249.76
MP2: $354.00
Hero: $441.00
CO: $143.22
Button: $461.80
SB: $161.00
BB: $88.60

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is MP3 with J J
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises to $16, 4 folds, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: K A 8 ($38, 2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets $30, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: 8 ($98, 2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

River: J ($98, 2 players)
UTG+2 bets $52, Hero raises to $150, UTG+2 raises all-in $381.4, Hero calls all-in $245.
Uncalled bets: $245 returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: $629.4
UTG+2 shows Kd Ks
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