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ImMrFish
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08-17-2006, 07:48 PM
Post subject: Folded Set of Kings
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 104
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1/2 NL live game (this is normally a 2/5 game but for some reason this night it is running as lower stakes), I am UTG +1 with KK.
I have about $500 in front of me.
MP (tight but not a good player) has maybe $350
cutoff and button (donkeys) are both about 200
BB (maniac) has ~600
I raise to 12 and its folded to MP, who makes it $24 to go. He is called by cutoff, button, and BB. WTF? I reraise, and reach into my stack, meaning to put out $100, but I grab the wrong chips, and end up only minraising him back to 50. I suck. He calls, as do cutoff, and BB (again WTF?)
Flop comes AKQ with two spades. I hate this flop. BB checks, I underbet the flop, putting 100 into a nearly $300 pot, which gives everyone odds, but that doesn't matter beacuse not one of these guys is capable of folding a draw in this huge pot anyway, and I want to keep it cheap. MP minraises me again. Love this guy. Cutoff, folds and BB pushes all in.
Action is to me. I says "rigged!" and ask for time.
What's is my move here?
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LimpinAintEZ
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice
Posts: 591
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you still on time? 
i would call there- even if they have a straight, or flush draws, you have big outs...They could as easily being calling you with 2 pair or even a Ace....I think we are only really afraid of AA here, and if they have that, I just tip my hat....
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Muzzard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
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I found myself in a similar spot once on $400 table
UTG i had QQ, raised 5xBB, 2 callers on in MP one in LP
Flop AQK rainbow
I check, MP checks, LP goes all in for 250-ish!?
Now I'm thinking he hasnt got AA or KK as he should PFRe-raise and equally you wouldnt all in on flop for $250 with 30-ish in the pot. Also would be v strange play for J10...So i put him on AQ or AK and go over the top to $350, hoping MP didnt flop the straight! lol. He folds! phew
LP player turns over AQ, I'm happy.... till an Ace come on the turn 
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ImMrFish
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 104
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I actually folded here. I was kicking myself as I did it, thinking this is the stuupidest fold I will ever make in my life, but something inside me kept insisting that captain minraise had a set of aces, and I decided to trust my gut, even though I felt like a weak tight pussy. I wasn't too worried about the maniac who pushed, by the way. Actually, I wasn't worried about him at all.
Anyway, I folded, and captain minraise turned up his set of aces. Maniac turned up 910 spades for the gutshot straight flush draw and the aces held up.
Does everyone agree that this was a horrible fold? even though the results were good, and I can hardly think of another situation where I would fold this, something convinced me that I was up against AA, and I made a decidion that maybe I shouldn't have made?
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Instincts are unconscious intelligence.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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I don't see how making a read, trusting it and acting accordingly is ever a horrible fold.
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2_Thumbs_Up
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08-22-2006, 08:44 PM
Post subject: Re: Folded Set of Kings
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#7 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 271
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ImMrFish
which gives everyone odds, but that doesn't matter beacuse not one of these guys is capable of folding a draw in this huge pot anyway
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I say push here.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
I don't see how making a read, trusting it and acting accordingly is ever a horrible fold.
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How exactly is he ruling out AK/QQ here? (edit: in a live game AQ/KQ are more plausable as well.) Also, the tightwad doesn't cover the maniac.
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ImMrFish
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 104
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
I don't see how making a read, trusting it and acting accordingly is ever a horrible fold.
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How exactly is he ruling out AK/QQ here? (edit: in a live game AQ/KQ are more plausable as well.) Also, the tightwad doesn't cover the maniac. |
I'd never seen him reraise preflop before over about 5 hours of play.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ImMrFish
I'd never seen him reraise preflop before over about 5 hours of play.
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5 hours @ 20 hands/hour = 100 hands? Maybe 200 hands? Also, this is live and the bordem/gamble factor tends to widen up ranges a bit (prior to any physical tells, etc.)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
How exactly is he ruling out AK/QQ here?
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ImMrFish
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 104
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ImMrFish
I'd never seen him reraise preflop before over about 5 hours of play.
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5 hours @ 20 hands/hour = 100 hands? Maybe 200 hands? Also, this is live and the bordem/gamble factor tends to widen up ranges a bit (prior to any physical tells, etc.)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
How exactly is he ruling out AK/QQ here?
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I agree that AK was a pretty probable hand, and QQ possible. But all that minraising clicked to me as AA and a i went with it. Like I said, I am not sure this was technically a good fold, so I welcome the discussion.
You call all in here, I take it?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ImMrFish
You call all in here, I take it?
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Yeah, but if you really think his min-raise pre-flop is buisness then I have no problem with just calling his raise to see what's up. Maybe even with less money behind you can manage to feel good about a really weak flop check/fold.
Once you build the pot pre-flop and juice the flop getting away from your set of Kings is just absurd.
Board: As Ks Qd
Dead:
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 29.0579 % 28.64% 00.42% { KK }
Hand 2: 25.6499 % 25.23% 00.42% { AA, QQ, AKs }
Hand 3: 45.2921 % 44.87% 00.42% { AA, QQ, ATs+, KQs, JTs, AQo+, KQo, JTo }
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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you've also underrepresented your hand
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
you've also underrepresented your hand
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The weak 3-bet screams big hand, plus he might have told the table he intended to bet bigger.
You need to be really really sure you're beat here. Once the $100 goes in the flop I think the shorter stack can show you the nuts and you still might have to call. The tale of the tape is more about not folding really good hands once the pot gets out of control.
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