www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

Flush draw repping a made hand, flush hits

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

lowBoy

11-03-2005, 05:21 PM Post subject: Flush draw repping a made hand, flush hits

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005

Posts: 513

No reads other than PT's 40 hands pegging him with %38 VP$IP %11.7 PFR.

STAGE #218061369: HOLDEM NO LIMIT $0.25 - 2005-11-03 13:08:52 (ET)
Table: FRESNO (Real Money) Seat #6 is the dealer
Seat 6 - EST_PROPHET ($19.15 in chips)
Seat 7 - ZEIFER ($35.35 in chips)
Seat 8 - IWIND ($54.80 in chips)
Seat 9 - MOTELREBKR ($46.45 in chips)
Seat 1 - BUNTYMCCRUMP ($75.20 in chips)
Seat 2 - SHIFTYFISH ($18.25 in chips)
Seat 3 - ARKADII ($10.45 in chips)
Seat 4 - HOTLEAD ($50 in chips)
Seat 5 - MIDGETMNX ($60 in chips)
ZEIFER - Posts small blind $0.25
IWIND - Posts big blind $0.50
HOTLEAD - sitout (wait for BB)
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to BUNTYMCCRUMP [8c 9c]
MOTELREBKR - Calls $0.50
BUNTYMCCRUMP - Calls $0.50
SHIFTYFISH - Folds
ARKADII - Folds
MIDGETMNX - Calls $0.50
EST_PROPHET - Calls $0.50
ZEIFER - Calls $0.25
IWIND - Checks
*** FLOP *** [Ks 2c 5c]
ZEIFER - Bets $1
IWIND - Folds
MOTELREBKR - Folds
BUNTYMCCRUMP - Raises $4 to $4
MIDGETMNX - Folds
EST_PROPHET - Folds
ZEIFER - Calls $3
*** TURN *** [Ks 2c 5c] [4s]
ZEIFER - Checks
BUNTYMCCRUMP - Bets $8
ZEIFER - Calls $8
*** RIVER *** [Ks 2c 5c 4s] [6c]
ZEIFER - All-In $22.85
BUNTYMCCRUMP - ???

Toughts?

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

r8ed

11-03-2005, 05:35 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

That sux. It think he probably has Ac and some other card and was drawing to the nut flush or to a straight. He's an idiot if he somehow has KK. If you are on TILT this is an easy call...jk. This why I'm not a huge fan of suited connectors. Even when you hit, you can't be sure you have the best hand. Sorry I can't give you a answer because this is a gut call depending on his previous plays.

Fnord

11-03-2005, 05:54 PM

#3 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Remember to say "thank you" when you call.

BTW, I usually check that turn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Rondavu

11-03-2005, 06:00 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

This is one of those hands where new cash game players get scared. As per most hold-em decisions, much has to do with your read on a particular player. I know that sounds useless to just say, so I'll put it a different way.

Here's the thing. This is a cash game. The difference between cash game and tournament, is that in cash game you have the luxury of taking into account how "often" a call is right in a particular situation, not just if it's right this time. It's a long term game, and you can't be eliminated from cash game. You want to make good "long term" decisions. Your read on a player is just the major "factor" in your long term decision to call or not.

What are the factors at play here?

Player Specific Read Factors
Does he bet his draws? If so how? Will he chase draws for more money than he should? Does he value bet made hands usually? Does he slowplay when he shouldn't? How aggressive is he? Would he bluff here, or is he so weak tight that it's almost impossible for me to be ahead here?

General Factors
Do people in general normally push all in when they make the nuts? What else could he possibly have that he feels is ahead? A straight would feel ahead here since you concealed your flush draw well. That increases the likeliness that you're ahead.

Based only on general info here I would make the call feeling ahead often enough to be profitable, but you can see how handicapped my advice is without player specific info. It's VERY VERY important for you to gather it. It's VITAL.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

Greedo017

11-03-2005, 06:01 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot

Posts: 1,461

easy call, don't lay down flushes to higher flushes except in the worst of circumstances.

i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch

lowBoy

11-03-2005, 06:44 PM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005

Posts: 513

Ron - Agreed on the reads. I was playing a few tables, and there was this douchebag on one of them sitting on my right that had a VP$IP of 85% and a PFR of %45, so I was paying attention to that table the most, as those situations are often quite lucrative. I got $50 off of him by smooth calling a set that turned a full house and then called his ace high bluff on the river.

Based off of what the average player will do when they make flush and deciding that I'm ahead here enough of the time I called. It was actually Greed's Straight Draw post that tipped the scales in my favour and made me think I was ahead here.

edudlive

11-03-2005, 09:26 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: 100NL 6max

Posts: 623

I pay it off everytime, he's probably just repping the flush because he's not going to put you on a flush draw. Most likely I put opp on a set or two pair, or if he's a huge donk...the straight.

(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
(16:02:31) Fleece: that u got real life friends
(16:02:48) Fleece: enjoy ur real life friends
(16:03:08) Fleece: ur e-friends dont wanna knwo about u anymore

dsaxton

11-04-2005, 01:03 AM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Arlington, VA

Posts: 2,667

Easy call.

Lukie

11-04-2005, 01:40 AM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: back with a vengeance

Posts: 3,307

Fold preflop. Limping SC's UTG+1 is a leak, that I can be very sure of. Easy call though on the river, pay off the higher flush if that's indeed what he has.

I think you have the best hand.

Fnord

11-04-2005, 01:57 AM

#10 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

Fold preflop. Limping SC's UTG+1 is a leak, that I can be very sure of.

Being second in helps protect him, with no table texture, reads, etc. given I wasn't going to go there and to be quite honest, I don't like talking much about pre-flop unless someone asks or it's horribly butchered.

If the table is playing limp and flop poker and he's beating the crap out of them post-flop in unraised pots, then good for him.

Post-flop is where the money is baby!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

sejje

11-04-2005, 02:19 AM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 883

I also put him on a bluff here. You repped a made hand, he wanted to push you off if a club hit.

Maybe that's overestimating the competition.

Anyway, I always pay off higher flushes (except obviously the four-flush). To me it's the same as set over set. I didn't draw to a flush to fold it. I didn't limp my pocket pair to fold a set, either.

I think a laydown here requires very strong evidence, a great read, and a much bigger bet in relation to pot size.

bair

11-04-2005, 03:00 AM

#12 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 953

agree with sejje, dont fold flush over flush

Zinnsoldaten

11-04-2005, 06:55 AM

#13 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Sweden

Posts: 130

I've seen so many donks doing exactly the same thing with fx KhQd.

What Shadows We Are, And What Shadows We Pursue

Lukie

11-04-2005, 07:15 AM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: back with a vengeance

Posts: 3,307

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

Fold preflop. Limping SC's UTG+1 is a leak, that I can be very sure of.

If he is capable of winning pots out of position and without cards, I'm all for it. Generally this is not the case.

If the table is very passive where he can be confident that his limp will not be raised behind, and he can draw cheaply post-flop without position, again, I'm all for it.

I probably shouldn't have brought it up, as it's not the glaring leak that open limping 45s in UTG+1 on an agressive table would be. In general though I avoid playing hands like this out of position (and outside of the SB in a limped pot where the price is too good) whenever possible.

lowBoy

11-04-2005, 03:49 PM

#15 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005

Posts: 513

I don't play SCs from EP very much, only when the table's been very limpy. Most of the hands on this table were 4+ handed and limped.

If anyone sees a problem with my preflop play in any HH, please bring it up. I can defend my actions, and/or learn something.

Rondavu

11-04-2005, 05:02 PM

#16 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

Fold preflop. Limping SC's UTG+1 is a leak, that I can be very sure of.

You wouldn't believe the crap I DON'T fold preflop. Once you aquire postflop skills, you can give away a shit ton of equity preflop. It almost becomes a non factor.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

defhalotones

11-07-2005, 04:06 AM

#17 (permalink)

One Pair

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: NE Ohio

Posts: 16

Wasnt repping a made hand on the flop your plan? You wanted him to think you had a made hand, but only on a draw. Why play it to the river, hit your flush, then fold? If your gonna create a plan on the flop, you better stick with it when/if it hits. I dunno....Looks to me like he thought the river card was a good scare card, and knew you didnt have the flush. Im thinking he thought his set was good, and didnt put you on flush.

I call this everytime. He prob has TP good kicker, or low set. Take his money. lol

-Jake-

smackin' bitches and floppin' sets.

Pelion

11-07-2005, 10:57 AM

#18 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

Quote:

Originally Posted by defhalotones

Why would he try and scare off a made hand on the river when he was already beating it with a set? That just doesnt make sense. I think its more likely he had a weak made hand (like a single pair of kings) and was trying to scare you off when the flush hit. I dont think he made the nut flush because the overbet is so huge. People tend to make fairly small value bets when they hit the nuts. Even if he does have the flush (and i dont think he does) he has you on a made hand so he thinks he is winning with alot of flushes that are smaller than yours.
I think you have to call

defhalotones

11-07-2005, 02:47 PM

#19 (permalink)

One Pair

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: NE Ohio

Posts: 16

flush>set
better read my post one more time man.

smackin' bitches and floppin' sets.

Chicago_Kid

11-09-2005, 05:22 AM

#20 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: People let me tell you about my best friends...

Posts: 1,132

Call with a capital "C". I can bet my flush draws pretty hard against a couple players, but I'm usually more careful with a lower flush draw.

However, at .25/.5 and other low blinds, donks love this AI steal play, gambling you don't have it. You see this daily...

Maybe he had a 3

"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"

ProZachNation

11-09-2005, 06:12 AM

#21 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: Over there!

Posts: 801

The only time to fold a flush without a rock solid read is when theres 4 to a flush on the board and your highest flush card is beat by more than 3 other cards.

At least thats my rule.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrhappy333

I didn't think its Bold to bang some chick with my bro. but i guess so... thats +EV in my book.

ChrisBCritter

11-09-2005, 11:37 AM

#22 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: Falmouth, ME

Posts: 781

Almost an instacall!! My bet is that he had K3 Sooted (not clubs though)

Hey knucklehead! Bonk!

Latest Poker News
dlbarlowe	06-01-2012, 11:03 AM White House Responds to Poker Players Alliance's Petition
After receiving a petition scripted by the Poker Players Alliance approximately eight months ago, the Obama administration recently issued a response prepared by Brian Deese, the Deputy Director of th ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:39 AM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

Full Ring NL Hold'em

Flush draw repping a made hand, flush hits

Play for FREE and practice your game at...