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d0zer
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08-07-2007, 03:12 PM
Post subject: Flopping trips with weak kicker, many limpers.
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,527
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I recently encountered this in a 25NL 9person game on PS, and really wasn't sure how to play it. Sorry, no hand history, but here's about how it went:
I'm in BB with 94o (SB folded), 4 limpers behind. Flop comes 99J rainbow. I check, everyone checks it around.
Turn comes 5 (flush draw out there), I bet pot-sized amount. 2 Callers
River comes K (no flush), I bet half-pot-sized amount.
The table was full of limpers, & calling-stations players. 40%+ saw the flop. Should I have played this more aggressively, more passively? I'm always a little cautious with weak kicker hands -- especially in early stages of tournies.
I'm inclined to play these trip weak kicker hands like I play TPTK -- with a healthy degree of caution (respecting big raises ...)
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Jay67s
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 241
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I am playing a small pot here, folding to any real aggression. Your line is fine -- I may check/call reiver
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,527
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay67s
I am playing a small pot here, folding to any real aggression. Your line is fine -- I may check/call reiver
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My line of thought on the river bet was to make a 'blocking bet', and fold to a big re-raise. If I had checked, a pot sized bet I may have folded to there, but maybe I was revealing too much about my hand strength with a relatively weak river bet?
I got lucky that I correctly had these villains pegged as somewhat loose-passive (I did get called with only pairs), but against a TAG I suppose I should have check/called the river?
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crazycrazy
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 240
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i think ur simply loosing value by not betting the river full. u get called down by so many hands that hit J,K if u get raised u have decison. also dont think that agression on so loose table means always 9. depending on opponent i may not go all in with 4 kicker but in NL25 i as well might.
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gingerwizard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,815
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It's not a blocking bet it's a value bet.
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This is not my signature. I just write this at the bottom of every post.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Your line is fine. I usually bet all 3 streets here.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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should we consider leading the flop here?
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bode-ist
should we consider leading the flop here?
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Yes. Particularly if our opponents are post-flop loose.
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,527
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bode-ist
should we consider leading the flop here?
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Yes. Particularly if our opponents are post-flop loose. |
I figured that a lead out as first to act on this flop would just scream "I HAVE A NINE", and chase everyone away. I was hoping to give someone who had missed the flop a chance to pick up a pair or two.
I usually only lead out first to act if I've hit and the board looks dangerous. Is this wrong? It seems that 'proper' sized bets (1/2 pot to pot sized) scare many loose passives away in a hurry.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Leading out w/ a stong hand like this onto a safe board, villains will often times not give us credit for a real hand and think we are just trying to steal an orphan pot.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,527
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bode-ist
Leading out w/ a stong hand like this onto a safe board, villains will often times not give us credit for a real hand and think we are just trying to steal an orphan pot.
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99J is a safe board with 5 players in on the flop?
I could your reasoning making sense if I was on the button, but here in the BB with 4 limpers yet to act, it seems to me that betting strong on the flop screams strong hand or reckless bluff.
Are villains on 25NL that skeptical of bets? I seem to have my bets respected a fair bit, but every now and then I'll make a big bluff and get called with third pair or some crap. I have trouble judging people on 25NL because styles of play vary so much more than the 50NL games in my experience....
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bode-ist
Leading out w/ a stong hand like this onto a safe board, villains will often times not give us credit for a real hand and think we are just trying to steal an orphan pot.
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99J is a safe board with 5 players in on the flop? |
eh, i guess its not *that* safe of a board
Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
I could your reasoning making sense if I was on the button, but here in the BB with 4 limpers yet to act, it seems to me that betting strong on the flop screams strong hand or reckless bluff.
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hopefully it screams the latter 
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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pgil
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
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betting may seem like its either a strong hand or a reckless bluff, but check-calling/check-raising that flop really defines your hand well. At least if you lead, your hand is not as obvious
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"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,527
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Is a paired board really considered somewhat safe? Heads up maybe since it reduces the chance that the villain has hit, but in a multi-way, I almost always run from a paired board if I haven't hit the trips. Too nitty?
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
Is a paired board really considered somewhat safe? Heads up maybe since it reduces the chance that the villain has hit, but in a multi-way, I almost always run from a paired board if I haven't hit the trips. Too nitty?
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people love to bluff paired boards.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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Bet the flop, Q10 and any jack follow you. Your hand can actually get in trouble here and you have a lot of ROI. Bet the flop to thin the field and define his range. I also bet the turn strong.
Sometimes people just don't believe you have the trips and call down their KJ here. Just bet your good hands man, especially in a multiway.
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mixchange
Just bet your good hands man, especially in a multiway.
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Priceless advice. Don't get fancy and slowplay. Of course, you should slowplay sometimes to balance your play, but in general just bet your good hands to ensure you get paid off.
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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Ya, people love to chase with bad odds. You can make a lot of money folding your draws with bad odds and betting your good hands to give draws bad odds. A lot easier than you think...
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