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flopped Trips, medium kicker and manic action.

  
 
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Pelion
Old 04-12-2006, 11:56 PM     Post subject: flopped Trips, medium kicker and manic action. #1 (permalink)  
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Are we ever ahead here?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($7.55)
Button ($8.75)
SB ($9.40)
Hero ($17.85)
UTG ($1.95)
UTG+1 ($10.40)
MP1 ($12.10)
MP2 ($10.70)
MP3 ($10)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2, 9. CO posts a blind of $0.10. MP3 posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.10, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.10, MP3 (poster) checks, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($0.60) J, 2, 2 (6 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets $0.30, MP2 raises to $0.60, MP3 folds, CO raises to $0.90, SB folds, Hero wonders wtf they all have?!?!
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
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The Professor
Old 04-13-2006, 12:08 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Fish with JJ being "sneaky" preflop...TT+ for that matter...
Maybe AJ or KJ...any reads? A2s also a likely candidate.
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zaaaaaak
Old 04-13-2006, 12:14 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Make it $2.70 to go.
fal04: there's not too many hands i won't play for a quarter if i'm feeling it
fal04: i'll play 7-2 off if i feel it
 
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mcatdog
Old 04-13-2006, 12:22 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaaaaaak
Make it $2.70 to go.
I think that's the worst thing you could do.
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zaaaaaak
Old 04-13-2006, 12:24 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaaaaaak
Make it $2.70 to go.
I think that's the worst thing you could do.
Nice input.
fal04: there's not too many hands i won't play for a quarter if i'm feeling it
fal04: i'll play 7-2 off if i feel it
 
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Vinterriket
Old 04-13-2006, 12:27 AM #6 (permalink)  
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whats with all the hate popping up in these forums again
The board is pretty safe for your trips. I'd call and see what develops on the turn.
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Warpe
Old 04-13-2006, 12:34 AM     Post subject: Re: flopped Trips, medium kicker and manic action. #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelion
Are we ever ahead here?
Wish you hadn't asked that...it kinda colours the HH. What are we afraid of here?...I'm thinking a limped JJ...



 
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mcatdog
Old 04-13-2006, 12:35 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaaaaaak
Nice input.
Sorry for not going into more detail. There aren't any draws on the board. If we're ahead, nobody has more than 2 outs against us. On the other hand, if we're behind, we have 3 outs at best.

This is a basic way ahead or way behind situation. We shouldn't be feeling very good about our hand right now because the re-raiser is representing at least a two, and if he has one, we're probably outkicked. But we'd still like to show our hand down especially if he's a donkey who would play like this with AJ. Raising is very bad because it lets our opponents off easy if all they have is a jack, and opens us up to get re-raised by the hands that have us in a hurtlock.

Against a random 10NL player I would call, and probably call him down unless the action got out of control.
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Pelion
Old 04-13-2006, 12:36 AM     Post subject: Re: flopped Trips, medium kicker and manic action. #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelion
Are we ever ahead here?
Wish you hadn't asked that...it kinda colours the HH. What are we afraid of here?...I'm thinking a limped JJ...
If it helps, its andy-akb's HH and I dont know the answer. I just found it suspicious that there were so many raises. Quit thinking outside the box
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
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zaaaaaak
Old 04-13-2006, 12:44 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaaaaaak
Nice input.
Sorry for not going into more detail. There aren't any draws on the board. If we're ahead, nobody has more than 2 outs against us. On the other hand, if we're behind, we have 3 outs at best.

This is a basic way ahead or way behind situation. We shouldn't be feeling very good about our hand right now because the re-raiser is representing at least a two, and if he has one, we're probably outkicked. But we'd still like to show our hand down especially if he's a donkey who would play like this with AJ. Raising is very bad because it lets our opponents off easy if all they have is a jack, and opens us up to get re-raised by the hands that have us in a hurtlock.

Against a random 10NL player I would call, and probably call him down unless the action got out of control.
Sorry about the snap. It just felt like a personal attack.

I make it $2.70 because, with the minraises in front of me, I'm not sure where I stand yet. With bet/raise/re-raise in a multi-way unraised pot on this flop, 9-2 can easily be behind (especially in 10 NL).

While this play may cause a hand like J-9 or KJ to fold, you will have more of a read on any player that calls you. Like I said, with the action in front of me, I'm not looking to trap TP but to find out how far ahead or behind I am.
fal04: there's not too many hands i won't play for a quarter if i'm feeling it
fal04: i'll play 7-2 off if i feel it
 
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SteveO
Old 04-13-2006, 01:01 AM #11 (permalink)  
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I think a re-raise is in order. Likely looking at a medium PP like 77-1010, AJ, Jx.

I am not worried at all about JJ. The worry is some donk took flop with 2x and has you kicked. A2 is remote.

I re-raise and see what happens. You want to see if your kicker is goot. Hell, lets say he has A2 reraising that flop is stupid. I don't think any of them have the 2. So I put them on medium pairs or Jx. I flat call the 90.
If someone moves in or re-raise behind I call/push.

On turn, I bet pot.

Final answer Regis- flat call. Try to bring along everyone. No draws on board. If someone has 2(better kicker) you will take your lumps. I understand this is micro limits but not many players play 2x.
Send lawyers, guns and money - the sh*t has hit the fan!
 
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Awaji E
Old 04-13-2006, 01:11 AM #12 (permalink)  

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The last 6 times I've flopped a set like this, I've ended up losing
Low kicker to a higher kicker
High kicker to a low spiked kicker
Full house to a better full house,
etc
So maybe that taints my opinion a bit, but here it goes,

With no raises pre-flop, any 2 is possible, and everyone should know that any 2 is possible. 2-3. 2-A, 2-K, 2-X (it was sooted!) In this situation, I think you've got a win-small-pot-lose-big-pot hand. I would have considered betting and not minding taking it down their, but with 3 people all saying, "I ain't afraid of no 2", I would choose the free option and just fold.
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martindcx1e
Old 04-13-2006, 05:31 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaaaaaak
I make it $2.70 because, with the minraises in front of me, I'm not sure where I stand yet. With bet/raise/re-raise in a multi-way unraised pot on this flop, 9-2 can easily be behind (especially in 10 NL).
While this play may cause a hand like J-9 or KJ to fold, you will have more of a read on any player that calls you. Like I said, with the action in front of me, I'm not looking to trap TP but to find out how far ahead or behind I am.
Don't get overly focused on finding out "where you stand." Finding out where you stand shouldn't be the sole purpose for a bet/raise. Always think about your reason for betting/raising. Are you raising to bluff or do you have reason to believe there's a good chance your opponents are weak? No. Are you raising to protect a hand against draws? No. Are you raising for value because you have reason to believe you are ahead here?
Quote:
With bet/raise/re-raise in a multi-way unraised pot on this flop, 9-2 can easily be behind (especially in 10 NL).
Correct. You can easily be behind so this wouldn't be a raise for value. So....raising = not the best decision in this spot in my opinion.
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Fnord
Old 04-13-2006, 07:21 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Nothing in the pot, you have the ass end of the monster range, routine fold.

I would probably lead this flop like 90%+ of the time in that game and exepct action from Jx.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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bdawg56kg
Old 04-13-2006, 09:11 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Easy fold. You have nothing invested, and there is a good possibility you are WAY behind. I would lead this flop though.

God, why don't I just quote fnord, lol.
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SteveO
Old 04-13-2006, 04:41 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Why do we get the feeling that we are "way behind"?

I know this is microlimits but we just hit a huge big blind special. Do we expect opponents to routinely limp with 2x? If anything we are way ahead here.

I think you are being overly cautious here by folding. You get action from Jx and any medium pair limping for set value.

There's nothing in the pot? This is a miro game big blind of .10. Theres over $2.00 that's a decent pot at that level. Hero is big stack at $17.

Either stick in a raise or slow play but I don't see any compelling reason to get away from this hand.
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Pelion
Old 04-13-2006, 04:54 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveO
Do we expect opponents to routinely limp with 2x?
Thats exactly the problem. We dont expect them to limp with 2x. We expect them to limp with something like A2s, K2s, Q2s, maybe J2s. If they have a 2 at all its almost certainly better than ours.
What does that 3rd raiser raise with that we beat?

Best case scenario as I see it is first raiser has AJ/KJ/QJ, Second raiser has sloplayed AA/KK, third raiser has 23s or something. But I just dont think this is likely.

I personally bet out the flop, but as played I cant see any reason to stay in such a small pot that probably has 2 or more people willing to play for stacks when our hand is so unlikely to be best (and has hardly any outs).
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
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johnny_fish
Old 04-13-2006, 05:47 PM #18 (permalink)  
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Call and see what happens. Those donkraises mean nothing.
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Galapogos
Old 04-13-2006, 06:01 PM #19 (permalink)  
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 Not worth it, you could possibly have the best hand here but more times than not I think you're losing a stack. You have very little money in this, easy to drop. Calling to find out is not worth it. Fold and watch how things play out, if they have nothing, now you have something to keep in mind next time with them.

I personally don't like to play trips for a lot of money. I've been de-stacked too many times by a full house when it gets deep.


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I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
 
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Fnord
Old 04-13-2006, 06:07 PM #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galapogos
I personally don't like to play trips for a lot of money. I've been de-stacked too many times by a full house when it gets deep.
That's silly. The reason I'm dumping this is because we have strength shown by mulitple opponents in a nothing pot. A big key to NLHE is having different strength hands you're willing to felt against different opponent, pot sizes, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Pelion
Old 04-13-2006, 11:05 PM #21 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord

That's silly. The reason I'm dumping this is because we have strength shown by mulitple opponents in a nothing pot. A big key to NLHE is having different strength hands you're willing to felt against different opponent, pot sizes, etc.
Hell yea. Headsup against a loosish player whos on a blind (so he could have 23 or a J) im probably going to play for stacks. I just dont think this situation warrents investing anything....at all.
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
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Lukie
Old 04-13-2006, 11:41 PM     Post subject: Re: flopped Trips, medium kicker and manic action. #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Hero wonders wtf they all have?!?!
Lukie wonders why you didn't just lead?!?!

I think a muck here is probably the best play, but at these limits, I'm not happy about it. The fact that CO posted preflop makes this decision easier though, IMO.
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JL
Old 04-14-2006, 08:18 AM #23 (permalink)  
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 UTG could have anything, MP2 most likely has Jx, and CO, who posted a BB out of position for those of u who missed that, has 2x 90% of the time here. Now even if he has a weaker kicker than you any T through A on the turn or river splits the pot with you.....

IMO this is an easy fold.
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