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Flopped set. Horrible play.

  
 
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ThelVlaster
Old 12-13-2005, 09:35 PM     Post subject: Flopped set. Horrible play. #1 (permalink)  
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What would you do in this situation?


(blinds $0.05/$0.10) No Limit Texas Hold'em - 2005/12/13-15:59:29.7 (CST)
Table "Dominica" (real money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Seat 1: bruffdog ($16.86 in chips)
Seat 2: ddubs1 ($8.90 in chips)
Seat 3: ags03d ($5.41 in chips)
Seat 4: jcdeal ($8.35 in chips)
Seat 5: GHutch ($12.10 in chips)
Seat 6: W.J. Dijk ($13.15 in chips)
Seat 7: itchyredeye ($10.80 in chips)
Seat 8: flowerking ($10.83 in chips)
Seat 9: DaWhittler ($9.40 in chips)
Seat 10: SunrayShorty ($34.71 in chips)
DaWhittler: Post Small Blind ($0.05)
SunrayShorty: Post Big Blind ($0.10)
Dealt to DaWhittler [ 4d ]
Dealt to DaWhittler [ 4h ]
bruffdog: Call ($0.10)
ddubs1 : Fold
ags03d : Call ($0.10)
jcdeal : Call ($0.10)
GHutch : Call ($0.10)
W.J. Dijk: Fold
itchyredeye: Fold
flowerking: Call ($0.10)
DaWhittler: Call ($0.05)
SunrayShorty: Check
*** FLOP *** : [ 4s 7c Ah ]
DaWhittler: Check - Slow played since I'm first to act. I noticed after I checked that someone could have an OESD
SunrayShorty: Check
bruffdog: Check
ags03d : Check
jcdeal : Check
GHutch : Bet ($0.25)
flowerking: Fold
DaWhittler: Call ($0.25)
SunrayShorty: Fold
bruffdog: Call ($0.25)
ags03d : Call ($0.25)
jcdeal : Call ($0.25)
*** TURN *** : [ 4s 7c Ah ] [ 5s ]
DaWhittler: Bet ($0.40) - I never slowplay twice in a row. Oh crap did someone just hit their A-5 straight? Why did I only bet $0.40?
bruffdog: Call ($0.40)
ags03d : Raise ($2)
jcdeal : Raise ($3.60) - I think I'm behind for a little bit, but maybe they just think I'm weak. I suppose they caught two pair or something
GHutch : Fold
DaWhittler: Call ($3.20)
bruffdog: Fold
ags03d : Call ($1.60)
*** RIVER *** : [ 4s 7c Ah 5s ] [ Ks ]
DaWhittler: Check
ags03d : Check
jcdeal : Bet ($4.40) - Great possible flush and possible straight. I played this whole thing weak. This is my 2nd orbit and I've only played 1 other hand. Everyone limped in. I'm probably toast here.
DaWhittler: Call ($4.40) - Wait why did I call?
ags03d : Call All-in ($1.46)
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $16.43 | Side pot 1: $5.88 | Rake: $1.10
Board: [ 4s 7c Ah 5s Ks ]
Results in White Below:
bruffdog lost $0.75 (folded)
ddubs1 didn't bet (folded)
ags03d lost $5.41 (showed hand) [ Qc As ] (a pair of aces)
jcdeal lost $8.35 (showed hand) [ 6s 6c ] (a pair of sixes)
GHutch lost $0.35 (folded)
W.J. Dijk didn't bet (folded)
itchyredeye didn't bet (folded)
flowerking lost $0.10 (folded)
DaWhittler bet $8.35, collected $22.31, net +$13.96 (showed hand) [ 4d 4h ] (three of a kind, fours)
SunrayShorty lost $0.10 (folded)
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ThelVlaster
Old 12-13-2005, 11:48 PM #2 (permalink)  
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What I'm asking is how easily can you guys get away from bottom set. How often do you fold in this situation? I am ruling out the possibility of runner runner flush. Heavy action on the turn, so I could have let someone hit his straight for cheap, or someone could have a higher set.
If you had no reads and were new to the table would you fold and try to find a better spot?
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Connexx
Old 12-14-2005, 05:37 PM #3 (permalink)  

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I'd probably shoot out about a pot sized bet on the flop depending on how loose/tight the players are, hopefully shaking off 2nd and bottom pair. If you're reraised on the flop, judge by the type of player playing back. Is he super tight and likely to have a higher set? Or can you put him on an ace? Now when the turn card comes you're better equipped to handle a scare card. The only hand you really have to worry about here is 23, which i wouldn't be suprised to see played at these limits. I'd open with another large bet on the turn. If the turn is a scare card and someone reraises big use your judgement based on your observation of that player and decide whether or not you should abandon your set.

I think you played this hand too passively. I would have made a large bet on the flop and probably gotten all of my chips in on the turn.
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EricE
Old 12-14-2005, 05:42 PM #4 (permalink)  
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EricE
The only flush is runner runner. Any straight has to include a 6. A and K are on the board giving good reasons for people to be betting. I think you stick with this set. Look for easy reasons for people to bet strong instead of a less probable reason. If the easy reasons are there (A and K on the board) then I would disreguard the straight/flushes here.
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r8ed
Old 12-14-2005, 06:50 PM #5 (permalink)  
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r8ed
Also related to this: Every time I hit a set on the flop, there is a possible flush or str8 draw. I end up betting 3/4 or full pot and many times I get folds. I don't mind taking down hands, but I wait like 30 orbits before I hit a set and then I make peanuts. Is it better to play slower and hope somebody chases or makes second best hand at the risk of losing alot of money? Even if a flush or str8 comes out, you don't know if they actually hit it or not most times, so you will probably end up showing down with money invested. The best you can hope for is to fill up and take it down if they hit their draw.

Play sets slow for max profits/losses? Or play fast and hope someboy falls in love with TP or a draw that misses?
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The Professor
Old 12-14-2005, 07:30 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I think you gotta mix it up. It IS tempting to slow play it, but I've gotten burned by this...only takes a few times to make you wonder about the merits of slow play.

If the board is draw heavy, I would pot the flop. Seeing as how this was rainbow, straight not yet likely, I would say 1/2 to 3/4 - someone will call, but make 'em pay.
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EricE
Old 12-14-2005, 08:35 PM #7 (permalink)  
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EricE
I like to 2/3 pot the flop and look for indications others in the hand are willing to go for more. If I get a raise I think carefully about reraising or calling. There are merits to both. Reraising has a lot to do with his raise. I won’t reraise a min raise since a min raise isn’t really that strong. If he 3x raises me then he is showing serious aggression and indicating he is willing to go for more. In that case I put in a big enough raise to pot commit him. I’ll stick the rest in on the turn.

If I was min reraised I’ll call then min raise his turn if he is first to act. If I am first to act I’ll pot it.

If I got nothing but a call on the flop then I’ll 2/3 pot it again.

It’s all about getting the most in w/o scaring off the opponent. Playing it faster than they are willing to go will send them home to mommy.
Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
 
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SteveO
Old 12-14-2005, 10:01 PM #8 (permalink)  
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SteveO
$.40 on the turn? The pot was like $2 . You gave everyone the odds to call. If that's what you want to do fine, but don't be miffed if you get sucked out on.

You are still slowplaying that turn. The turn opened up a whole can of worms. Bet out pot or a bit less or overbet the pot there. I'm taking bottom set or any set to the felt. You could be called by any A rag preferably 2 pair there and you want to crush them when you show your set. You also want to crush anyone who thought that they can pick up a back door flush.

Totally discount the wheel str8 in this situation and pay it off.

You have a redraw to FH if the river pairs which will make any str8 very unhappy.

Another thing you can do if you have observant opponents is bet out your strong hands like 2 pair and sets just like you do when you have TP or a bluff. You will get paid off more.
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BankItDrew
Old 12-14-2005, 10:33 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 I play a set like I play pocket rockets.

Play them fast, avoid the flushes and straights, eliminate the draw!


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