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Knytestorme
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06-16-2005, 12:09 PM
Post subject: First time called noob/rook :)
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 562
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Got an interesting hand that would like some opinions on, but will show the first hand that caused the opponent's tilt I think.
Dealt K-K on like second hand at the table, playing .05/.10 nl at bodog to clear bonus.
Preflop was raised to .40, I raised to .80 and ended up with 2 callers including the raiser.
Flop came 4h, 6s, Qs, I bet $1.50 and got raised to $3.00. I put the guy on either A-Q or a flush draw so called him down. Down to me and him
Turn was 7h and he led out $4.85 and I put him on an attempted steal with missed flush so went all in and had him call.
River was 5d and I won with him showing Q-9d.
There was no banter after this hand, and I thought I played it fine, was happy with my reads and thought I had best hand all the way so unless there is something obvious I'm missing I'm happy here.
Two hands after this came the hand that led to the trash-talking, him calling me a rook and a noob, a chaser and telling me it was game on before he left the table 
Delat 6-7h in big blind, was limped round to me with about 5 players so I just checked in and saw a free flop.
Flop came 9d, 2h, 5h and I led out for 0.25, got 2 callers including big mouth. Had no read on anyone here but figured I was 4 to the flush and gutshot straight so was worth seeing if I could scare anyone out.
Turn came Kc and I checked, checked round. Again no real read except that king was a worry card.
River was 8h and I led out for $1.50, Big mouth called and showed 10-10 to my flush.
Now given the number of outs I had at the flop, was I wrong to take it to the river given they gave me a free card (probably would have folded at the turn to a bet of 0.25 or more)?
I'm fairly confident and certain what the answer will be, and I'd play the hand the same way again, but again I'm looking for opinions on if I should have played it differently or if I'm right that the guy was just on tilt from losing the hand earlier.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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They're both well played.
Except KK preflop, I'd like to raise it to atleast a dollar. .80 declares your hand at a discount price, which you dont want.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Agree with 'rilla. Your second hand was beautifully played... you led out with a good draw which serves the dual purpose of disguising your hand and juicing the pot if you hit. They checked around on the turn giving you no tough decisions. Then you hit & won. How on earth this makes you a chaser, I have no idea - he never bet or raised and the only betting that went on was initiated by you. It's his fault for not betting the best hand. Sucks to be him.
For the record, I will throw out the first bet with any draw with at least 8 outs, in the right circumstances. It's trickier play than just check/calling... you will make more money when you hit playing it that way.
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,603
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classic weak tight, they have never bet without a hand (and usually not with!) so they think it's cheating/fishy when you do it. Not re raising the flop here is just really bad play by 10 10, the poker gods deservedly punished him.
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chris_1069
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: At the poker table
Posts: 99
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He tried to check you into folding with his PP and it didn't work so he got mad. Sucks to be him, and good play by you.
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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what a noob/rook, dont you know KK is a huge dog to Q9 ?? fold preflop.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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DaHorror
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 616
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'Rilla I read a lot of folks here that just standard raise AA KK QQ AKs even JJ 5x BB all the time to disguise their hands somewhat (meaning just say I have a high PP but not which).
Do you only recommend the $1 bet here because it's a reraise (where you declare AA KK anyway because of the reraise but would like people to pay more to see it)?
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DaHorror
'Rilla I read a lot of folks here that just standard raise AA KK QQ AKs even JJ 5x BB all the time to disguise their hands somewhat (meaning just say I have a high PP but not which).
Do you only recommend the $1 bet here because it's a reraise (where you declare AA KK anyway because of the reraise but would like people to pay more to see it)?
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Any reraise is saying aces or kings, so you might as well make them pay to try and draw you out.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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DaHorror
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 616
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Gotcha - so add a little bit on to sweeten the pot but not so much that it scares everyone off - probably just isolates you and the other raiser which is perfect for AA KK.
Thanks!
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Knytestorme
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 562
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Thanks for the replies all, specially Element (I'll make sure to remember that if I ever get KK against you, just saved me a lot of money I bet ).
I always worry about a flush with something like 5-2 in the hole since it's beat by almost anything else, but as has been said here before the odds of someone else having 2 suited at the same time are low enough that they get paid off every time. Good to see some thought it was the right play, so no need to second guess changing that mode of play.
In terms of the KK re-raise, I can see the point and agree with you on reflection 'rilla, only thinking in my head at that stage was that I always raise to 5xBB when I enter a pot (unless it's been opened already for what I'd open it to and don't think my hand is re-raisable) to try and negate reads on hand strength. Certainly something for me to consider in the future though and one of the things I love about this game, always things to learn and always the ever reliable "it depends"
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SteveO
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 755
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Perhaps your opponent should look in the mirror.
He didn't raise to protect his 1010. He had and overpair to the flop and didnt raise to knock out the draw that you were going for. He didn't bet the turn when the scare card K came and worst of all he weakly calls your river bet when the flush and str8 card hits.
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Send lawyers, guns and money - the sh*t has hit the fan!
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AcesInTheHole
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Beaverton, Oregon
Posts: 18
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You played that perfectly, noob
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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On the first hand I'd reraise more preflop, and reraise his raise on the flop. Your hand is vulnerable against both of the hands you mentioned, so I would try to either take the pot down on the flop, or give my opponent the opportunity to call off more of his money as an underdog.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Ya the real noob was the one calling names. He calls a re-raise preflop with Q9, and then can't let go of his dog to your KK. You gave him so many chances to save money. You played it straight up and he still payed you off. That's the very definition of a fish/noob.
Second hand you played it EXACTLY the right way. Try to take it down on the flop with a strong draw, and then check an unimproved turn. Meanwhile, he screwed the hand up royally. He slowplayed a vulnerable hand against 4 opponents with (count em) 16 overs in the deck that could potentially beat him. In actuality it was about half the deck that could beat him. When half the deck can beat you on the next card, maybe it's time to tear it down. He's obviously an idiot who doesn't have a clue what he's doing.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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