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Few hands for comment.

  
 
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thnwkd
Old 05-08-2006, 04:32 AM     Post subject: Few hands for comment. #1 (permalink)  
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thnwkd
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($13.91)
UTG ($54.40)
UTG+1 ($58.83)
MP1 ($37.13)
Hero ($25.10)
MP3 ($18.50)
CO ($23.95)
Button ($25.20)
SB ($15.18)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T, T. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.25, 3 folds, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.25) 2, 9, 3 (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets $2, UTG+1 calls $2, Hero folds, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: ($5.25) 8 (2 players)
UTG bets $5, UTG+1 calls $5.

River: ($15.25) K (2 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks.

Final Pot: $15.25
good fold? thoughts?
utg was rated as SLN, and UTG+1 as SLA. 50+ hands each...



FullTiltPoker Game #621561368: Table Tyndall - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:11:05 ET - 2006/05/07
Seat 1: aLLoTiSaM ($44.95)
Seat 3: HERO ($70.30)
Seat 4: SAE Xi ($42.95)
Seat 5: LITE POLE ($58.05)
Seat 6: JJ0115 ($54.25)
Seat 7: millie30 ($23.25)
Seat 8: Big Fish Joe ($43.20)
Seat 9: farrellj1 ($34.20)
SAE Xi posts the small blind of $0.25
BIGBAG adds $20
LITE POLE posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [3s 3c]
JJ0115 calls $0.50
millie30 folds
Big Fish Joe raises to $1.50
farrellj1 folds
aLLoTiSaM calls $1.50
BIGBAG is feeling happy
HERO calls $1.50
SAE Xi folds
LITE POLE calls $1
JJ0115 calls $1
*** FLOP *** [9d Ad 3d]
LITE POLE checks
JJ0115 checks
Big Fish Joe bets $4
aLLoTiSaM calls $4
HERO calls $4
LITE POLE folds
JJ0115 folds
*** TURN *** [9d Ad 3d] [Kc]
Big Fish Joe bets $10
aLLoTiSaM folds
HERO calls $10
*** RIVER *** [9d Ad 3d Kc] [Ah]
Big Fish Joe bets $15
HERO: AK?
HERO has 15 seconds left to act
HERO calls $15

like the way i played this? how's the call on the river?



FullTiltPoker Game #621593639: Table Tyndall - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:23:31 ET - 2006/05/07
Seat 1: aLLoTiSaM ($38.20)
Seat 2: BIGBAG ($30.80)
Seat 3: HERO ($98.80)
Seat 4: SAE Xi ($59.55)
Seat 5: TalAK ($19.50)
Seat 6: JJ0115 ($34.30)
Seat 7: millie30 ($18.10)
Seat 8: Big Fish Joe ($20), is sitting out
Seat 9: farrellj1 ($29.95)
TalAK posts the small blind of $0.25
JJ0115 posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [7d 7c]
millie30 folds
farrellj1 folds
aLLoTiSaM calls $0.50
BIGBAG calls $0.50
millie30 stands up
HERO calls $0.50
SAE Xi folds
TalAK raises to $2.50
JJ0115 folds
TheCardCop sits down
aLLoTiSaM calls $2
BIGBAG calls $2
TheCardCop adds $50
HERO calls $2
*** FLOP *** [5s 9h 2c]
TalAK has 15 seconds left to act
TalAK bets $5
aLLoTiSaM folds
BIGBAG folds
HERO raises to $17
TalAK calls $12, and is all in

Like?
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martindcx1e
Old 05-08-2006, 05:03 AM #2 (permalink)  
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1. fine
2. i raise the turn and i probably push the river
3. EDIT: wow i gotta get some sleep. i didn't realize all the ppl in the hand. i fold it. and calling raises like that pre-flop on a regular basis will get pretty expensive i think.
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Renton
Old 05-08-2006, 05:26 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 #1- I raise to 1.5 preflop. TT is the sixth best hand in hold 'em and should be raised as such IMO. Plus you might be able to buy position. As played I'd call the flop bet and probably fold to the large turn PSB.

#2- I raise the flop to 10-12. Then I check behind the turn (he'll usually check if you raise), and get it all in on the river. He could have AK but I don't care, cuz I beat AJ, AQ, AT, and XXd, and thats enough for +EV.

#3- I don't like this hand. Your preflop call is pretty -EV with villains short stack. I don't mind that call so much, but just understand that its very low to negative EV. As for postflop, I like this even less. Villain bet strong into a multiway pot. Unless he's a fool, he has 77 beat here. I think you are beat there at least 80% of the time.
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bair
Old 05-08-2006, 05:58 AM #4 (permalink)  
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#1: played way too weak, i refuse to limp TT, definite raise pf, bet/raise the flop.
#2: i push the river
#3: fold for the same reasons renton said. if you have the best hand then that guy is a moron
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stuck
Old 05-08-2006, 03:50 PM #5 (permalink)  
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#1: PF, I don't mind the limp, but a raise ala Renton's suggestion wouldn't be bad here either.
I think this was really poorly played post-flop. I don't think this is a fold/raise scenario, but a raise/call scenario. I wouldn't mind a raise to 7-8 on the flop. If he calls, check behind on the turn unimproved and hope for a cheap showdown (or you might win it right there). I also don't mind Renton's line given your stack size compared to theirs.

#2: I don't worry about AK here. His range is so wide on a board like this to make pushing the river +EV.

#3: I like it if he c-bets waaaay too much and in poor circumstances (at $25 NL? I can imagine people c-betting with AK here because, well, y'know, it's AK! What a great hand! Especially if it's soooted). In other words, read dependant (what isn't?). If he's a decent player, give him credit, if he's a fish who will over play hands like AK, AQ, KJ unimproved, I don't mind the play.

I also agree with Renton in that calling such large raises against people with relatively shallow stacks (even multiple people, though that does help) is probably marginal EV at best.
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thnwkd
Old 05-08-2006, 07:46 PM #6 (permalink)  
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thnwkd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
#1- I raise to 1.5 preflop. TT is the sixth best hand in hold 'em and should be raised as such IMO. Plus you might be able to buy position. As played I'd call the flop bet and probably fold to the large turn PSB.

pre-flop
Hud and PT had these guys rated as SLN and SLA, I didnt think a raise to 1.5 would have any effect on these guys. other than building the pot and my hand would likely not be good on the flop. btw I have position already.
but lets say i raise to 1.5 both villians call, flop comes T A 2r, both chk or bet .5 - .75 pot, I raise, easy fold for villians. nice pot but not what i'm looking for, I'm looking to double up with a hidden set.
post flop
"As played I'd call the flop bet and probably fold to the large turn PSB."
So you're just donating?

#2- I raise the flop to 10-12. Then I check behind the turn (he'll usually check if you raise), and get it all in on the river. He could have AK but I don't care, cuz I beat AJ, AQ, AT, and XXd, and thats enough for +EV.

Ok. but what is the plan if he goes AI?, what if he folds? if he folds than he had a hand i beat and i just ran him off

#3- I don't like this hand. Your preflop call is pretty -EV with villains short stack. I don't mind that call so much, but just understand that its very low to negative EV. As for postflop, I like this even less. Villain bet strong into a multiway pot. Unless he's a fool, he has 77 beat here. I think you are beat there at least 80% of the time
I agree that calling this raise against OR is -ev, but both limpers called i believe this changed things, if i hit somebody is getting stacked.
I agree Post flop is questionable; 88+ beats me. but how often does shorty make this play (pf raise with limpers in) with KQ, AJ+ ?
.
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samsonite2100
Old 05-08-2006, 09:45 PM #7 (permalink)  
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I'm writing this deliberately w/out reading others' responses, so pardon me if I repeat what's already been said.

1) Raise PF. I think the fold was good.

2) Raise flop. I'd probably raise to $10. As played I might just push the turn to make him pay if he's on any kind of draw.

3) I think the combined players' stacks provide the implied odds needed to call. The PF raiser was first to act and led out, which I don't like. I'd be more inclined to make this raise if he were last to act and was betting after being checked to. I'd drop this hand here--too marginal.
 
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Renton
Old 05-09-2006, 01:54 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thnwkd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
#1- I raise to 1.5 preflop. TT is the sixth best hand in hold 'em and should be raised as such IMO. Plus you might be able to buy position. As played I'd call the flop bet and probably fold to the large turn PSB.

pre-flop
Hud and PT had these guys rated as SLN and SLA, I didnt think a raise to 1.5 would have any effect on these guys. IT GETS MORE MONEY IN THE POT WHILE YOU HAVE THE BEST HAND (TT IS PROBABLY BEST HERE), PLUS IT ALLOWS YOU TO REPRESENT AN ACE HIGH FLOP. other than building the pot and my hand would likely not be good on the flop. btw I have position already. NO THERE ARE THREE PEOPLE REMAINING TO ACT, EACH OF WHOM IS GETTING VERY APPEALING POT ODDS TO PLAY ANY TWO CARDS WITH POSITION.
but lets say i raise to 1.5 both villians call, flop comes T A 2r, both chk or bet .5 - .75 pot, I raise, easy fold for villians NOT NECESSARILY, THEY COULD BE ON AN ACE. BESIDES, IF THEY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING, HOW ARE YOU GONNA GET A SET PAID OFF IN THE FIRST PLACE? YOU CAN'T WIN A BIG POT UNLESS BOTH YOU AND VILLAIN HAVE A GOOD HAND. nice pot but not what i'm looking for, I'm looking to double up with a hidden set. SO, IN LIMPING BEHIND, YOU ARE HOPING TO GIVE VILLAINS THE CHANCE TO HIT THE FLOP HARD, WHILE YOU HIT YOUR SET. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THIS. THE RANGE OF HANDS THEY COULD HAVE WILL BEAT A SET WHEN THEY HIT THE FLOP (E.G. 67s) IF NO ONE HAS A GOOD HAND IN THE FIRST PLACE (NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR RAISING, THEN I THINK ITS THE BEST BET TO RAISE AND GET MONEY IN THE FLOP SO YOU CAN AT LEAST TAKE DOWN A DECENT POT ON THE FLOP, WHETHER YOU HIT OR NOT.
post flop
"As played I'd call the flop bet and probably fold to the large turn PSB."
So you're just donating? NO, THIS IS RESULTS ORIENTED. THERE'S NO WAY YOU CAN KNOW THAT HE WILL BET STRONG ON THE TURN. YOU SEE THIS IN RETROSPECT AND IT SEEMS LIKE DONATING. IN REALITY, MOST OF THE TIME HE WILL HAVE BEEN BETTING A 9, AND MIGHT SLOW DOWN ON THE TURN IF SOMEONE CALLS HIS FLOP OVER BET. THE FACT THAT HE CONTINUES BETTING POT ON THE TURN GIVES YOU MORE INFORMATION AND ALLOWS YOU TO MAKE THE APPROPRIATE LAYDOWN.

#2- I raise the flop to 10-12. Then I check behind the turn (he'll usually check if you raise), and get it all in on the river. He could have AK but I don't care, cuz I beat AJ, AQ, AT, and XXd, and thats enough for +EV.

Ok. but what is the plan if he goes AI?, what if he folds? if he folds than he had a hand i beat and i just ran him off DON'T EVER BE AFRAID OF RUNNING PEOPLE OFF. SLOWPLAYING IS A HIGHLY OVERRATED PRACTICE. ON THIS BOARD YOU NEED TO PROTECT YOUR HAND. CHANCES ARE NEITHER OF THE TWO PLAYERS HAVE THE FLUSH. CHANCES ARE BETTER THAT THEY ARE DRAWING TO A AND K HIGH FLUSHES. YOU NEED TO GET A LOT OF MONEY IN ON THIS FLOP WHILE YOU HAVE THE MOST EQUITY. BTW, IF HE GOES ALL IN I CALL, BECAUSE BY THAT POINT THE POT IS SO BIG THAT WE CAN CHASE OUR BOAT PROFITABLY. A DECENT SCENARIO WOULD BE A THREE WAY ALL IN, CUZ THEN, EVEN IF THEY BOTH HAVE THE MADE FLUSH, THEN YOU REALLY AREN'T LOSING MONEY

#3- I don't like this hand. Your preflop call is pretty -EV with villains short stack. I don't mind that call so much, but just understand that its very low to negative EV. As for postflop, I like this even less. Villain bet strong into a multiway pot. Unless he's a fool, he has 77 beat here. I think you are beat there at least 80% of the time
I agree that calling this raise against OR is -ev, but both limpers called i believe this changed things, if i hit somebody is getting stacked. ITS NOT THAT BAD, ITS JUST NOT THAT GOOD EITHER. IT WOULD PROBABLY BE MORE +EV TO RERAISE (MAYBE).
I agree Post flop is questionable; 88+ beats me. but how often does shorty make this play (pf raise with limpers in) with KQ, AJ+ ? RARELY UNLESS HE'S DUMB.
.
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thnwkd
Old 05-10-2006, 12:23 AM #9 (permalink)  
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thnwkd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
Originally Posted by thnwkd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
#1- I raise to 1.5 preflop. TT is the sixth best hand in hold 'em and should be raised as such IMO. Plus you might be able to buy position. As played I'd call the flop bet and probably fold to the large turn PSB.

pre-flop
Hud and PT had these guys rated as SLN and SLA, I didnt think a raise to 1.5 would have any effect on these guys. IT GETS MORE MONEY IN THE POT WHILE YOU HAVE THE BEST HAND (TT IS PROBABLY BEST HERE), PLUS IT ALLOWS YOU TO REPRESENT AN ACE HIGH FLOP. other than building the pot and my hand would likely not be good on the flop. btw I have position already. NO THERE ARE THREE PEOPLE REMAINING TO ACT, EACH OF WHOM IS GETTING VERY APPEALING POT ODDS TO PLAY ANY TWO CARDS WITH POSITION.
but lets say i raise to 1.5 both villians call, flop comes T A 2r, both chk or bet .5 - .75 pot, I raise, easy fold for villians NOT NECESSARILY, THEY COULD BE ON AN ACE. BESIDES, IF THEY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING, HOW ARE YOU GONNA GET A SET PAID OFF IN THE FIRST PLACE? YOU CAN'T WIN A BIG POT UNLESS BOTH YOU AND VILLAIN HAVE A GOOD HAND. nice pot but not what i'm looking for, I'm looking to double up with a hidden set. SO, IN LIMPING BEHIND, YOU ARE HOPING TO GIVE VILLAINS THE CHANCE TO HIT THE FLOP HARD, WHILE YOU HIT YOUR SET. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THIS. THE RANGE OF HANDS THEY COULD HAVE WILL BEAT A SET WHEN THEY HIT THE FLOP (E.G. 67s) IF NO ONE HAS A GOOD HAND IN THE FIRST PLACE (NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR RAISING, THEN I THINK ITS THE BEST BET TO RAISE AND GET MONEY IN THE FLOP SO YOU CAN AT LEAST TAKE DOWN A DECENT POT ON THE FLOP, WHETHER YOU HIT OR NOT.
post flop
"As played I'd call the flop bet and probably fold to the large turn PSB."
So you're just donating? NO, THIS IS RESULTS ORIENTED. THERE'S NO WAY YOU CAN KNOW THAT HE WILL BET STRONG ON THE TURN. YOU SEE THIS IN RETROSPECT AND IT SEEMS LIKE DONATING. IN REALITY, MOST OF THE TIME HE WILL HAVE BEEN BETTING A 9, AND MIGHT SLOW DOWN ON THE TURN IF SOMEONE CALLS HIS FLOP OVER BET. THE FACT THAT HE CONTINUES BETTING POT ON THE TURN GIVES YOU MORE INFORMATION AND ALLOWS YOU TO MAKE THE APPROPRIATE LAYDOWN.

#2- I raise the flop to 10-12. Then I check behind the turn (he'll usually check if you raise), and get it all in on the river. He could have AK but I don't care, cuz I beat AJ, AQ, AT, and XXd, and thats enough for +EV.

Ok. but what is the plan if he goes AI?, what if he folds? if he folds than he had a hand i beat and i just ran him off DON'T EVER BE AFRAID OF RUNNING PEOPLE OFF. SLOWPLAYING IS A HIGHLY OVERRATED PRACTICE. ON THIS BOARD YOU NEED TO PROTECT YOUR HAND. CHANCES ARE NEITHER OF THE TWO PLAYERS HAVE THE FLUSH. CHANCES ARE BETTER THAT THEY ARE DRAWING TO A AND K HIGH FLUSHES. YOU NEED TO GET A LOT OF MONEY IN ON THIS FLOP WHILE YOU HAVE THE MOST EQUITY. BTW, IF HE GOES ALL IN I CALL, BECAUSE BY THAT POINT THE POT IS SO BIG THAT WE CAN CHASE OUR BOAT PROFITABLY. A DECENT SCENARIO WOULD BE A THREE WAY ALL IN, CUZ THEN, EVEN IF THEY BOTH HAVE THE MADE FLUSH, THEN YOU REALLY AREN'T LOSING MONEY

#3- I don't like this hand. Your preflop call is pretty -EV with villains short stack. I don't mind that call so much, but just understand that its very low to negative EV. As for postflop, I like this even less. Villain bet strong into a multiway pot. Unless he's a fool, he has 77 beat here. I think you are beat there at least 80% of the time
I agree that calling this raise against OR is -ev, but both limpers called i believe this changed things, if i hit somebody is getting stacked. ITS NOT THAT BAD, ITS JUST NOT THAT GOOD EITHER. IT WOULD PROBABLY BE MORE +EV TO RERAISE (MAYBE).
I agree Post flop is questionable; 88+ beats me. but how often does shorty make this play (pf raise with limpers in) with KQ, AJ+ ? RARELY UNLESS HE'S DUMB.
.
thats alota blue lol. thanks for the responses renton, everbody

1. Results below:
UTG has Jd Js (one pair, jacks).
UTG+1 has Qs Qh (one pair, queens).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins $15.25.

perhaps i've developed some kinda poker instincts or something
however i think long term renton's line makes alot of sense.

2.*** SHOW DOWN ***
Big Fish Joe shows [Ac Qc] (three of a kind, Aces)
HERO shows [3s 3c] (a full house, Threes full of Aces)
HERO wins the pot ($66.75) with a full house, Threes full of Aces

wow, dude really was a big fish. but again i have to say renton's line makes the most sense, more often than not this guy has the Kd and i should charge to draw

3.TalAK calls $12, and is all in
HERO shows [7d 7c]
TalAK shows [Kh Ah]
*** TURN *** [5s 9h 2c] [8c]
*** RIVER *** [5s 9h 2c 8c] [6s]
HERO shows a straight, Nine high
TalAK shows Ace King high
HERO wins the pot ($42.30) with a straight, Nine high
TalAK is sitting out

truth be told i don't think i make this play against a larger stack, but the small flop bet & the fact that he's short made me do it.
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