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extracting value from nuts

  
 
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gabe
Old 06-15-2005, 03:56 PM     Post subject: extracting value from nuts #1 (permalink)  
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i'm trying to convert some of my ideas from tourneys to ring and i need some guidance. i see lots of hand histories where people get allin with their good hands, but i can't seem to find spots to do it. i think this comes from my tourney play where folding equity is much more because you can't always just reload your chips (like in ring).

any thoughts appreciated..

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BB ($80)
UTG ($159.47)
UTG+1 ($98.65)
UTG+2 ($21)
MP1 ($140.3)
MP2 ($141.25)
MP3 ($45)
CO ($112.75)
Hero ($115.3)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, 7. SB posts a blind of $0.5.
4 folds, MP2 calls $1, 2 folds, Hero calls $1, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: ($3.50) 8, 6, T (3 players)
BB checks, MP2 bets $2, Hero calls $2, BB calls $2.

Turn: ($9.50) 4 (3 players)
BB checks, MP2 bets $8, Hero calls $8, BB calls $8.

River: ($33.50) K (3 players)
BB bets $1, MP2 raises to $5, Hero raises to $14, BB folds, MP2 calls $9.

Final Pot: $62.50
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DimitriT
Old 06-15-2005, 05:20 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I don't think this is a good place for it. There's not a whole lot
on the board to justify the AI move. The only thing that would
call the AI would beat you (Ac Tc).

Anything else and he's folding.

He probably has TK but the flush and straight possibilities would
make the AI very scary here.
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gabe
Old 06-15-2005, 05:35 PM #3 (permalink)  
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two pair or a set might call the flop push....but then again i dont know
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DimitriT
Old 06-15-2005, 06:51 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
two pair or a set might call the flop push....but then again i dont know
Yea but then you won't extract value from any other hand. Long term is this a gain?
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dsaxton
Old 06-15-2005, 07:05 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Raise on the flop to try to catch a player with a set. It's the only way you're going to win a big pot.
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Zangief
Old 06-15-2005, 07:10 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I would raise the turn to at least $16, maybe $20 or $24. Although you will have a flush if another club falls, you'd rather not be put in the position of trying to find out whether you have the highest flush or not when you currently have the nut straight.
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Element187
Old 06-15-2005, 07:36 PM #7 (permalink)  
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either reraise on the flop or the turn.. i would prefer the all in on the turn .. you were safe on the flop from flushes, when the possible flush draw exist, this is a good time to push all in ... ideally you are only going to be called by people with a set or 97 as well, but the preflop raiser might call.. if someone wants their flush here, its going to cost them.
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elipsesjeff
Old 06-15-2005, 07:43 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 Go all in on the turn here. Make some one pay huge for that flush draw if he has it and anyone with a T or a set will call you here. I like the slow play on the flop but that turn is a scare card. That same situation happened to me this weekend. I was playing a live tourny and flopped the nut straight with someone betting into me. I decided I would go all in on the river no matter what card, well, the guy pulled out of his ass a runner runner flush to bust me and he also had the straight on the turn (but not my nut). I wish I had gone all in on the turn but in either case I would have lost.


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a500lbgorilla
Old 06-15-2005, 09:07 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Please edit the title. I had to chuckle at 3 or 4 quick jokes of mine before I could read this thread.

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You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 06-15-2005, 09:10 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Hero's action is fine on the river. You're hand isn't the nut flush if it was, AI on the river.

With this hand, you give yourself a little spare room to make the fold against a better flush.

A better play would be to raise the turn. You're pretty powerful here and the board isn't quite threatening enough to scare a set away but it's getting there. Any raise on the turn will suffice.

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journey075
Old 06-15-2005, 09:32 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Please edit the title. I had to chuckle at 3 or 4 quick jokes of mine before I could read this thread.

-'rilla

hahahhaha
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Element187
Old 06-17-2005, 12:06 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Please edit the title. I had to chuckle at 3 or 4 quick jokes of mine before I could read this thread.

-'rilla
lets hear the jokes.
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michael1123
Old 06-18-2005, 10:19 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Raise the turn to like $20 or so. Not to try and scare away flush draws (you should be begging for flush draws to call your raise really), but just to try and build yourself a bigger pot. The bigger the pot is, the more they're willing to call, which means a turn raise allows for a bigger river bet, exponentially increasing the pot size.

All in on the flop or turn would be ridiciulously bad in this small pot with deep stacks. Some of you guys really seem to be looking at this hand backwards, thinking about doing your best to avoid being outdrawn instead of doing your best to get them to get them to call for as much as they possibly will.
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Old 06-18-2005, 11:30 AM #14 (permalink)  
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I would consider minraising the turn, other than that your play is perfect here.
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dsaxton
Old 06-18-2005, 05:58 PM #15 (permalink)  
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I don't see any point in slow-playing this on the flop. You may get more marginal action from marginal hands, but who cares? You're risking potentially not getting paid off huge by big hands. Raise at least the minimum on the flop and hope that a player has a set or two pair, rather than waiting until the board becomes too scary for these hands to pay you off, or until you get outdrawn or counterfeited.
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