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Pythonic
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02-12-2008, 02:35 PM
Post subject: Ever okay to fold here?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: In S-mart Swallowing Your Soul!
Posts: 586
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Villian is a multitabler with 10/10/2 stats.
I got this hand 2 hands after doubling up. I know I should have reraised preflop but is anyone laying this down after villian's huge flop bet?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
MP1 ($9.20)
Hero ($51.75)
MP3 ($31.45)
CO ($6.50)
Button ($4.65)
SB ($8.80)
BB ($27.95)
UTG ($22.80)
UTG+1 ($24.30)
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K , K .
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1, MP3 raises to $2.75, 2 folds, SB calls $2.65, BB calls $2.50, MP1 calls $2.50, Hero calls $1.75.
Flop: ($13.75) 2 , Q, 4 (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets $9, SB calls $6.05 (All-In), BB folds, MP1 folds, Hero???
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AHiltz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Coldbrook, NS
Posts: 1,589
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edit: was assuming this was 100NL
I see him having AA a lot here and trying to price out draws. He has AQ about 30% of the time.
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Jimmy Mac
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Drinking your milkshake.
Posts: 950
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If you are sure he only 3bets KK+ then this is fine i guess. Without a super sick read I would 4 bet PF and call a push obv - theres so much money in the pot you better be pretty sure before you fold those kings.
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deacon_bluez
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 216
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Mac
If you are sure he only 3bets KK+ then this is fine i guess. Without a super sick read I would 4 bet PF and call a push obv - theres so much money in the pot you better be pretty sure before you fold those kings.
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Yeah, especially with those 3 callers (!) behind, I would reraise to try hard for a heads up flop with KK. If you had done that preflop, it might have made a big difference on the flop action as well.
Wondering why you checked the flop also.
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Sue me if I play too long....
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Pythonic
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: In S-mart Swallowing Your Soul!
Posts: 586
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I checked the flop to see what the villian would do because I was 90% certain she had aces (had note on her that said reraised less than 3x with AA).
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deacon_bluez
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 216
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pythonic
I checked the flop to see what the villian would do because I was 90% certain she had aces (had note on her that said reraised less than 3x with AA).
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Yes, but which villain? True, she is the one who reraised pf, but now you have others to concern yourself with too. I like to be a little more aggressive with an overpair and try to put others to the test.
If you were that certain she had aces, then checking to her when she has position on you must verify that she has the aces if she bets out? If so, your question is kind of meaningless. Or is she just c-betting? You have no additional info to base your decision on unless you force the point a bit on the flop.
(Plus if I was 90% sure I was up against aces, I would fold KK preflop.)
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Sue me if I play too long....
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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You can't let that many people see a flop that cheap. Take it to the third floor and stack off to Aces.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AHiltz
I see him having AA a lot here and trying to price out draws. He has AQ about 30% of the time.
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i agree here. and, since we are looking at a $9 call into $28, isnt that breakeven at the least?
you are also sooooooo deep here. i 4bet this to $15 and call the shove pre. waaaaaay too many people in this hand.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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Pythonic
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: In S-mart Swallowing Your Soul!
Posts: 586
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Villian only cbets 50% of the time. Still think I should call?
Only hands I see villian having here are AA, QQ and possibly AKs with this big of a bet on the flop.
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Never bet on a white man in the heavyweight division!
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bumbling_ass
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 8
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I agree with Fnord. Statistics aside, the only true information you have access to in the moment is gained by betting and raising. Making the decision to play KK in a five way pot when you have the option to narrow the field is effectively deciding to reduce your odds of having the best hand after the flop to 50%. If the villain pushes over the top of your 4-bet preflop or your flop bet, you have an easier decision, IMHO.
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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Its a pf party
Stack off here pf everytime, no need for social flops
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bumbling_ass
I agree with Fnord. Statistics aside, the only true information you have access to in the moment is gained by betting and raising. Making the decision to play KK in a five way pot when you have the option to narrow the field is effectively deciding to reduce your odds of having the best hand after the flop to 50%. If the villain pushes over the top of your 4-bet preflop or your flop bet, you have an easier decision, IMHO.
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easier decision? i still dont fold. i havent folded KK pf in over a year and a half...and dont plan on it ever again at my levels. i have much bigger leaks to worry about at the moment.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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Pythonic
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: In S-mart Swallowing Your Soul!
Posts: 586
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Just for giggles the villian did have AA and I rarely make big laydowns which I did here on the flop but sometimes I guess you have to trust your reads and instincts.
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