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+EV at higher stakes?

  
 
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azureXsmurF
Old 03-14-2006, 01:56 AM     Post subject: +EV at higher stakes? #1 (permalink)  
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I find players at micro stakes often calling my c-bets. So far, continuing with the aggression on the turn has been very profitable for me. If they call on the turn I check/fold, otherwise they've almost always folded.

Does this become unprofitable at higher stakes?

PokerStars Game #4279913442: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2006/03/13 - 21:52:18 (ET)
Table 'Pollux V' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: ginnni ($5.17 in chips)
Seat 2: UBeGood ($5.14 in chips)
Seat 3: AAJ2001 ($3.50 in chips)
Seat 5: azureXsmurF ($2.86 in chips)
Seat 7: chins99 ($1 in chips)
Seat 8: krodik ($2.93 in chips)
ginnni: posts small blind $0.01
UBeGood: posts big blind $0.02
chins99: posts small blind $0.01
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to azureXsmurF [Kh Qh]
AAJ2001: folds
azureXsmurF: raises $0.06 to $0.08
chins99: calls $0.08
krodik: folds
ginnni: folds
UBeGood: calls $0.06
*** FLOP *** [7c 4h 9c]
UBeGood: checks
azureXsmurF: bets $0.13
chins99: calls $0.13
UBeGood: folds
*** TURN *** [7c 4h 9c] [2h]
azureXsmurF: bets $0.15
chins99: folds
azureXsmurF collected $0.52 from pot

EDIT: Just wanted to clarify I only do this on the turn when I'm OOP and when the turn doesn't help any hands I could see the villain calling on. I also won't do it against more than 2 people.
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bdawg56kg
Old 03-14-2006, 04:04 AM #2 (permalink)  
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If you're gonna fire the 2nd barrell, then make a real bet, like 3/4 pot. At higher stakes, your weak turn bet will often get raised by aggressive players, forcing you to throw away a nice draw if they raise big enough. Betting 1/4 pot on the turn will almost never work at any stakes, unless your opponent is super weak.

Also, I don't think floating is a common thing at the penny tables. When they call you on the flop with bottom pair/air, it's not with the intention of taking the pot away on a latter street, it's with the intention of showing down the hand. Therefore I'm not sure how effective firing the 2nd barrell will be, whether it be a bluff or semi-bluff.
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Renton
Old 03-14-2006, 04:24 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 only make this play in a heads up situation, with a rag/rainbow flop, or a paired rag flop.

Essentially when you make the c-bet you're saying "I might have a hand, but then I might not. you've seen me do this before many more times than I should have had hands."

Then with a turn bet, it's more like you're saying " no seriously, I really do have a hand and I am betting for value"

This play actually works BETTER as you move up in levels. Its a horribly unprofitable play at microstakes, because the villain who limped an unimproved 55 will call you down to kingdom come.
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Blinky
Old 03-14-2006, 04:28 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Bdawg:

What is floating? I hear you and Fnord throw this term about, but what exactly is it? (sounds like calling a bet in position to reevaluate on the turn...?)

Thanks. Also, are there certain player types which this is more useful against?
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Originally Posted by Rondavu
We will not support your pocket pair aggression.
 
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azureXsmurF
Old 03-14-2006, 04:38 AM #5 (permalink)  
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ALright, thanks for responses... so basically even though this isn't the best move at my current stakes, but it's a good habit to have when I move up above the micro limits?
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Fnord
Old 03-14-2006, 05:56 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinky
What is floating?
Calling without pot odds, intending on taking the pot away on a later street. Quite often in spots like paired boards a raise will get little respect, but a call + turn raise will make anything short of trips lay it down.

Raising turns still has merit in NLHE with deepish money because you're telling your opponent that your hand is strong enough to give a card, then you define your strength at an effectivly higher stake.

This is particularly important against opponents that c-bet too much. You must make some loose calls + raises to fustrate their efforts at insta-profit at your expense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Fnord
Old 03-14-2006, 05:57 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azureXsmurF
ALright, thanks for responses... so basically even though this isn't the best move at my current stakes, but it's a good habit to have when I move up above the micro limits?
Second barrels good. Learning to pick spots for them hard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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