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Knytestorme
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07-23-2007, 11:19 AM
Post subject: Easy lay-down?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 562
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Villain is 17/6 over only about 50 hands.....server was going down for maintenence in about 5 minutes.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
saw flop|saw showdown
UTG ($31.20)
MP1 ($73.45)
MP2 ($55.45)
CO ($55.50)
Hero ($55.60)
SB ($47.70)
BB ($15.80)
Preflop: Hero is Button with K , K .
3 folds, CO calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, CO raises to $4.5, Hero raises to $12, CO raises to $24.5, [color=#CC3333]Hero ????
I was in 3 minds with this hand....could see the cases for just calling the min-raise here and pushing any non-A flop....could see the case for pushing since he could be over-playing AK/AQ and could see the case for folding given stats and what I'm likely up against.
He could be making a steal from CO and now we're in a similar situation to button vs blind battle, but here I have position so perhaps not even re-raise but call his initial raise and get agro on non-A flop?
Know the cases for never folding KK and agree, only one hand out there beating me pre and it's like 1:22 or something but also there is the old "4th raise is Aces" adage so I'm not sure what the right play here is over the long term.
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jimmy44
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Place where I can spew
Posts: 1,391
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I push here. At 50NL, I don't lay down KK pre-flop. Calling his 4bet is bad because you're giving him a chance to catch an ace, if he's re-raising with AK/AQ.
Plus, his min re-raises are very strange ...
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Trashcona
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 147
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I wouldn't loose any sleep over pushing here even if it does really look like you're up against AA. I push without a second thought.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Folding here isn't terrible.
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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Limp... min raise... re-min raise... Gross. I don't think this is AK/AQ very often. Although some people think that JJ and QQ are worthy of playing that slow/strong.
With just 24BB's invested I could see a fold here if there have been no indications that the villain is a donk.
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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I have never, ever seen really good players ever advocate folding kings preflop. Just like folding sets on flops. Sometimes you very, very likely know you're beat, but you just don't do it. Making big laydowns is not what makes winning players.
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Knytestorme
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 562
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Yeah, as I said I was going over all three options in my mind with this one and I think making the call would have been the worst play as what happens iff a Q or J comes on the flop for instance?
I think the main thing in my mind then was that it was possible to reload....with his line here in a tournament I certainly wouldn't hate a fold in this spot.
As played I pushed, he showed AA and I reloaded.
Mainly wanted to see if anyone could find a fold here and given that 1/2 the posters could shows how gross a spot this is in practice and is one of those spots we need to be able to recognize and not overplay.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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Twice last month I thought I made expert lay down to AA with KK. My expert laydowns were to AK and 88. Don't fold kings. If you're having a sick problem there then lose respect at the table.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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he limps min 3bet RR's and 5bet minRR's.
Um, he has Aces at least 98.6% of the time with that line.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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Hmm I didn't see the limp. i splash around so much that I don't mind stacking with KK.
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