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Don't know if I played this right

  
 
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dannyd267
Old 01-11-2006, 02:18 PM     Post subject: Don't know if I played this right #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 64
dannyd267
I don't have the HH but I will spew it out for you know...

Loose table on PP last night. (25NL)
I was in position with 860
I called a dollar bet
Flop was 579 with 2 diamonds
Four people in the pot and a $2 bet came to me.

OK here is where I think I messed up. My thinking...At least one over pair out there and since there are 4 people in the pot, someone is on a flush draw. I prayed to the poker gods for a non diamond card to come out on the turn and if that happened, I would push.

Turn was a J (non diamond)

UTG+1 pushes about 15 bucks
UTG+2 pushes about 10 bucks
I push about 22 bucks
BB pushes 41 bucks.

River Blank

UTG+1 shows KK
UTG +2 and myself show 68
BB shows 810 and takes down the pot with a J high straight

I just kinda sat there stunned for a while. WTF just happened?
I was pretty sure I had it.
Did I play this wrong? should I have pushed on the flop? I was wanting to keep as many in the pot as possible. In hindsight, I think the only person that "might've" folded was the BB since he didn't have a made hand just yet and might not have wanted to bet half his stack with 2 guys to act in front of him with 8 outs. (but I could be wrong)

Any Feedback will be appreciated.

Thanks
dannyd
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r8ed
Old 01-11-2006, 02:27 PM #2 (permalink)  
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r8ed
Reraise on the flop to get flush chasers out. The rest is fine, except preflop. Calling a 4xbb raise preflop with 86o is as foolish as calling a 4xbb raise preflop with 8To. This is the poker gods punishing you for that call. Print this hand history out and put it next to your computer and write "I will not call 4xbb raises with junk". You will save yourself money in the long run.
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dannyd267
Old 01-11-2006, 02:53 PM #3 (permalink)  
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dannyd267
Quote:
Originally Posted by r8ed
Reraise on the flop to get flush chasers out. The rest is fine, except preflop. Calling a 4xbb raise preflop with 86o is as foolish as calling a 4xbb raise preflop with 8To. This is the poker gods punishing you for that call. Print this hand history out and put it next to your computer and write "I will not call 4xbb raises with junk". You will save yourself money in the long run.

I think that is one of my leaks. I will play almost any 2 cards on the button, including these one gappers.
thanks
dannyd
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SonOfAkira
Old 01-11-2006, 03:04 PM #4 (permalink)  
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SonOfAkira
Quote:
Originally Posted by r8ed
Reraise on the flop to get flush chasers out. The rest is fine, except preflop. Calling a 4xbb raise preflop with 86o is as foolish as calling a 4xbb raise preflop with 8To. This is the poker gods punishing you for that call. Print this hand history out and put it next to your computer and write "I will not call 4xbb raises with junk". You will save yourself money in the long run.
Agreed.
Three things I guess:
1. Calling 86o is beyond loose, it's maniacal, unless you were mixing it up. You didn't say if you limped this or not. If you did, and the table is maniacs, you have to assume everyone else limped something junky as well, and that flop is also dancing around their cards.
2. The pot already at least roughly ten dollars in it, and especially for a 25NL game, this is significant to take down with something like 86o. So AI, even if everybody folded, would net you something nice. And judging from this table, you'd get a caller. But a signigicant enough raise to isolate one of the players is also a very good, if not better.
3. For a group of maniacs, and they are, considering everybody called everything, can sometimes be chilled out to more manageable standards by a postflop AI. Read hypermegachi's 6-max limit guide. Those this obviously is a different game than yours, he makes a good point by saying your superstrong hand will have odds on any one or two hands, but 3 or 4 or more players calling EVERYthing i hopes for their longshot draw or miracle card will have you beat. The odds are increased that one of them will hit. In a more normal situation, the raise is obviously the best play, but the AI can force things so that you can easily isolate less players in the future.
And, actually 4, though this is theoretical and I welcome any scrutiny, the money you might lose from value betting these hands against a group of maniacs can be made back instead when you very strongly raise top hands in position and take their silly raises. Look at it this way, say you have KK or rockets in position and a string of one dollar raises comes your way. An AI (and I stress this is not neccesarily best play in all types of games) would eat up their raises and undoubtedly get a caller, to which you'd undoubtedly have him dominated.
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r8ed
Old 01-11-2006, 03:05 PM #5 (permalink)  
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r8ed
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyd267
Quote:
Originally Posted by r8ed
Reraise on the flop to get flush chasers out. The rest is fine, except preflop. Calling a 4xbb raise preflop with 86o is as foolish as calling a 4xbb raise preflop with 8To. This is the poker gods punishing you for that call. Print this hand history out and put it next to your computer and write "I will not call 4xbb raises with junk". You will save yourself money in the long run.

I think that is one of my leaks. I will play almost any 2 cards on the button, including these one gappers.
thanks
dannyd
Limping is one thing, calling raises is another - although 86o is still questionable there unless the whole table limps before you. If you feel this is a leak, then I'm serious about printing it out and keeping it in view. Some successful players I know do this.
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SonOfAkira
Old 01-11-2006, 03:14 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Posts: 147
SonOfAkira
Edit to part 1.
You did say you didn't limp this, I went back to check but didnt correct this sentence afterwards. Even more incentive to thank the gods for your miracle flop and not test them by handing out two miracles in one hand.
Actually, here's a thing to do, something one of my mentors showed me. Deal out a full ring and give yourself rockets. Then deal out a board and see how many times the rockets hold up to all the combinations of cards.
Though of course you know this, it's a good way to really have it stick that the main reason any starting hand is strong is that it has the potential to be isolated against one or two weaker hands, not on it's strength against many. You can only VERY rarely expect to slowplay a hand to the point that it will take the stacks of multiple players.
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