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Donked up TPTK...

  
 
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DLC11
Old 10-30-2006, 08:38 PM     Post subject: Donked up TPTK... #1 (permalink)  
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I do this from time to time and it needs to stop. It's embarrassing.

What is a better way to play this hand?

Villian is 22/1, but with only 168 hands recorded.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($193)
SB ($217.60)
BB ($208.65)
UTG ($253.20)
UTG+1 ($216.60)
MP1 ($299.50)
Hero ($200)
MP3 ($107.15)
CO ($121.65)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, J.
3 folds, Hero raises to $7, 1 fold, CO calls $7, Button calls $7, SB calls $6, 1 fold.

Flop: ($30) J, T, 7 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $20, CO folds, Button raises to $50, SB folds, Hero calls $30.

Turn: ($130) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $75, Button raises to $136, Hero calls $61.

River: ($402) J (2 players)

Final Pot: $402

Results:
BeatPurdue: shows [Ah Js] (three of a kind, Jacks)
ram714: shows [7d 7h] (a full house, Sevens full of Jacks)
ram714 collected $399 from pot
Think big, or suck.
 
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Blinky
Old 10-30-2006, 08:55 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Without looking at the results, I put opp on TT, 77 or even 89.

Preflop is ok.

Flop: cbet is okay but button pushes back I can understand the call here to some extent but doing so puts you OOP for a balooning pot. If you are planning to lead the turn you might as well 3-bet the flop, but I rarely do this with TPTK unless I know opp sucks.

You lead the turn. Button uses both middle fingers as he pushes his stack into the pot with his nose. How much more information do you need?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
We will not support your pocket pair aggression.
 
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dpe8598
Old 10-30-2006, 09:11 PM #3 (permalink)  
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You got outflopped in a bad way OOP on a hand you raised preflop, that is always a recipe for losing some money. So right off, you will lose a lot of money on this hand. The question is did you lose too much, do you have value betting less and folding to big bets here. I think so.

First, you almost pot it on the flop w/ TPTK. Not a terrible move, but its a move that forces you into a position. If you get reraised big, like you did, you are basically pricing yourself in for all of your chips. Especially if J remains the highest card. I would have probably bet more like 2/3 on the pot and evaluated from there. I may have called a reraise just because position flop buys are so common. On the turn, I would have reevaluated, I definitely wouldn't have stabbed at the pot. Again, your really pricing yourself in w/ this play when you can't be too sure your ahead. Furthermore, even if you are ahead your more likely to get that money in the pot by checking again.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 10-30-2006, 09:16 PM #4 (permalink)  
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IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enoughIowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough
 your raise preflop is borderline...
Check out the new blog!!!
 
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Fnord
Old 10-30-2006, 09:24 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Once upon a time Fnord moved from 200NL full to 100NL 6 max and realized that he got the money in too often with the worst of it in spots like this. Then he stopped doing that, moved to to 200NL and has yet to eat a big negative swing since then.

Fin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Pelion
Old 10-30-2006, 10:30 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Once upon a time Fnord moved from 200NL full to 100NL 6 max and realized that he got the money in too often with the worst of it in spots like this. Then he stopped doing that, moved to to 200NL and has yet to eat a big negative swing since then.

Fin.

When exactly do you slow down here? Do you not bet the turn? Do you just fold the flop straight away?

I assume you arent folding to the turn raise as played (pot odds and the like).
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
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Fnord
Old 10-30-2006, 10:34 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelion
When exactly do you slow down here?
When he raises it's time to figure out who you're up against and what that means. Against some opponets I fold to the flop raise. Against others I call and look at a turn card + bet. Against others I re-raise the flop all-in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Blinky
Old 10-30-2006, 11:11 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelion
I assume you arent folding to the turn raise as played (pot odds and the like).
Looking at pot odds in isolation is IMO a mistake when opp has made it pretty clear what sort of hand we're facing.

As played ...
we're looking at calling $60 to win a $400 pot... we need to win this 60/400 = 15% of the time to make this an even-money bet. Even if we generously assume that the opp is capable of bluffing here 10% of the time (which most players at small stakes probably don't try since so many other opps wouldn't even consider a bluff), we need to be ahead of op 5% of the time... given the flop and turn action, opp probably holds QQ+ or a set > 5% of the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
We will not support your pocket pair aggression.
 
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